Small ski areas facing a slippery slope

[highpeaksdrifter]

Interesting Article - http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=784831

What do you Magic skiers think about their business plan?

 

[BHS]

isn't this the third or fourth time in the last 15 years that they've tried to bring back Magic? Is there some basic problem with the mtn that keeps it from coming back?

 

[Talisman]

isn't this the third or fourth time in the last 15 years that they've tried to bring back Magic? Is there some basic problem with the mtn that keeps it from coming back?

Lack of snow making and specifically an adequate water supply. The lifts and lodge could use some TLC, but until they can open reliably for major holidays with man made sneaux, staying open will be s truggle depending on natural snow in Southern Vermont.

 

[bobbutts]

isn't this the third or fourth time in the last 15 years that they've tried to bring back Magic? Is there some basic problem with the mtn that keeps it from coming back?

They've been up and running for the past few years.. They're trying to keep it running, not bring it back

 

[Geoff]

The closest reliable water is the West River out on Route 100. You'd have to construct a big snowmaking pond, build a 2 mile pipeline up Route 11, and pump water up to the snowmaking pond. I don't see how Magic could get the permitting and the money for that project.

I just learned something from looking at the Google satellite image of Magic. I saw maintained ski trails going down the east side. I didn't realize there was a private ski area on that side of the hill.

NELSAP:
http://www.nelsap.org/vt/timberridge.html

 

[deadheadskier]

I didn't realize Timber Ridge was a private area now. I do remember it once being connected with Magic. What have they done with the connector trails? Fence them off?

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

isn't this the third or fourth time in the last 15 years that they've tried to bring back Magic? Is there some basic problem with the mtn that keeps it from coming back?

They do always seem to be on the edge of closing or staying open. Alot of people claim to love the place, but I think the article stated they get 16,000 skier visits a year. With that number it is amazing they stay open at all.

 

[2knees]

I didn't realize Timber Ridge was a private area now. I do remember it once being connected with Magic. What have they done with the connector trails? Fence them off?

its not a private ski area. If i've heard correctly, its owned by an individual who basically uses it for snowmobiling.

the connector trail is still there. it's off to the left as you depart the red chair. its one hell of a slog to get over there though. we used to drive over cause it was such a pain in the ass traverse.

 

[thetrailboss]

There are some big facts in here that I did not know, namely that the current regime is leasing the mountain and doesn't own it. I also was not aware of this new "coop" approach. It works for MRG because they have a large core of devotees and NO real snowmaking costs. The downside: they're closed or will be closing this weekend. The upside: the skiers are rabid and will bring $$ in other ways.

I wish them luck, but it is going to take some deep pockets and good snow years for the place to come back. We're facing the same dilemma with Burke: infrastructure that is just too old and not enough demand.

Speaking of demand, 16,000 skier visits? Are you kidding? That is nothing. Burke has almost somewhere between 70-100k skier days (IIRC)...just below that...

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

The article also gives info on Hickory Ski Area in Warrensburg, NY. It's been shut down the past 4 years, and although I passed it many times on my way to Gore, I never skied there and I really regret it. The trails you can see look great. If they do get open this coming season or whenever, I'll definitely try it out.

 

[tekweezle]

MRG gets alot more natural snow than Magic. I guess geography is their biggest enemy. they need snowmaking but I guess it;s politics/environmentalists that are getting in the way.

I went to Magic once, got an ugly oil stain on my jacket.....other than that, the skiing was pretty good for a springlike day. i thought the the area was small though, I think if these small areas had night skiing, it might be the niche they need to compete against the bigger full featured resorts.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Cool pics and history of Hickory here - http://www.nelsap.org/ny/hickory1.html

 

[thetrailboss]

The fact that they lease and don't own the mountain explains why that triple chair still is incomplete. They've been working on that lift for almost five years. :blink:

 

[deadheadskier]

They do always seem to be on the edge of closing or staying open. Alot of people claim to love the place, but I think the article stated they get 16,000 skier visits a year. With that number it is amazing they stay open at all.

goes to show what the vast majority of skiers are looking for when Mt. Snow sees as many people on a busy Saturday as Magic does in an entire season.

 

[Glenn]

MRG gets alot more natural snow than Magic. I guess geography is their biggest enemy. they need snowmaking but I guess it;s politics/environmentalists that are getting in the way.

In VT, Act 250 is a huge stumbling block. Even bigger areas have to contend with that.

It's a shame, I often wonder if that hurdle was removed, if places like Magic and Maple Valley...and others could remain viable.

 

[thetrailboss]

goes to show what the vast majority of skiers are looking for when Mt. Snow sees as many people on a busy Saturday as Magic does in an entire season.

Well, I think it is an operational problem akin to what Tenney has...management is underfunded or just can't get the word out about the fact that they are open. Besides that there have been a number of days in which Magic just didn't open at all and we found out about it after the fact. If you have a lot of those days, folks aren't going to rely on a visit there.

It's too bad because I hear good things about the place.

 

[Geoff]

In VT, Act 250 is a huge stumbling block. Even bigger areas have to contend with that.

It's a shame, I often wonder if that hurdle was removed, if places like Magic and Maple Valley...and others could remain viable.

Act 250 permitting probably isn't that big a deal for Magic. The major work they need to do is snowmaking infrastructure and all of that is below the magic 2500 foot elevation where it becomes very difficult to get permits. It's not like people are going to line up to drag out the permitting process the way it's usually done to stop things like Walmart and Home Depot. Everybody in Londonderry wants a viable Magic Mountain. The eco-Nazis wouldn't be likely to get in the way of a Vermont-crunchy co-op.

Near as I can tell, what Magic needs to do is pump water out of the West River at the pond in Londonderry at the intersection of Routes 100 and 11. With 16,000 skier visits, there's no way they could possibly afford the project.

 

[tekweezle]

it;s definitely a chicken/egg scenerio. with better infrastructure, skier visits would increase. enough to justify the investment? that's something for the venture capitalists to decide.

 

[jrmagic]

They have access to plenty of water from Lowell Lake and the connectin is already in place. The "new" chair began construction before the current management took over mountain operations. Several items came up that had to be addressed before they could dedicate resources from their limited budget to complete that project. Personally I'm glad as the completion of that lifr would be down at the bottom of the priority list. With both the red and black chairs running there is plenty of uphill capacity unless visits incresed substantially. Revamping snowmaking and dedicating a budget to make early season snow are the 2 biggest items that need to be addressed.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

The closest reliable water is the West River out on Route 100. You'd have to construct a big snowmaking pond, build a 2 mile pipeline up Route 11, and pump water up to the snowmaking pond. I don't see how Magic could get the permitting and the money for that project.

I just learned something from looking at the Google satellite image of Magic. I saw maintained ski trails going down the east side. I didn't realize there was a private ski area on that side of the hill.

NELSAP:
http://www.nelsap.org/vt/timberridge.html

The West River is way too far to be a viable water source for Magic. They have been working on expanding their snowmaking pond for three years now but for some reason have been unable to get the required Act 250 permit for it.
http://www.snowjournal.com/page.php?cid=topic11816

They also been having major electrical problems and their big chairlift accident in the beginning of 2007 which injured some skiers certainly didn't help them.