Stowe opens the kimono on how it did in 2008-09

[billski]

The take-aways from the Stowe Reporter article on snow season performance suggested a rocky year.

a) Season Pass sales were up, primarily due to accelerated growth in College passes.
b) Overall ticket sales were down for the season
c) A lot of discounting went on during the rainy holiday periods ("hundreds if not thousands")

It will be interesting to see what other resorts say.

http://www.stowetoday.com/articles/...news/local_news/doc49f056fa37b8a581304537.txt

 

[dalecaluori]

Great, Stowe deserves a bad year.

They have horrible customer service and are always pushing away the real skiers.

I hope they continue to lose money. That will force them back to reality.

 

[RootDKJ]

That sux. I hate to see any ski area do poorly....

 

[Trekchick]

That sux. I hate to see any ski area do poorly....

X2

I've experienced Stowe in some amazing conditions, as well as some marginal/awful conditions.
No matter the resort, snow conditions, or economy, I hate to see any of them struggle, but I have a feeling we'll see more of this kind of report in the near future.

 

[ccskier]

Great, Stowe deserves a bad year.

They have horrible customer service and are always pushing away the real skiers.

I hope they continue to lose money. That will force them back to reality.

Nobody deserves a bad year, if you don't / can't go there then don't. There is too much of the pissing contest of Stowe sucks it is too expensive, they built a big hotel, whatever. The truth of the matter is, they do still attract the real skiers. I will say that the reality is, Stowe does have the best skiers/terrain in the East.

 

[Geoff]

Nobody deserves a bad year, if you don't / can't go there then don't. There is too much of the pissing contest of Stowe sucks it is too expensive, they built a big hotel, whatever. The truth of the matter is, they do still attract the real skiers. I will say that the reality is, Stowe does have the best skiers/terrain in the East.

Stowe has a really screwed up model. They have a very expensive product for the walkup day ticket skier. They have a very expensive adult season pass. They have a deluxe resort hotel at the bottom of the hill and a real attraction down the road with what's arguably the best ski town in New England. They then jam the resort full of unprofitable college pass customers who terrorize the rich people they're trying to attract.

As a business, you can't make money from "real skiers". They buy your season pass product and then don't spend another dime with you. There just aren't enough of 'em to make a go of it and they're spread out among an awful lot of mountains in the northeast rather than concentrated at Stowe as is being suggested in this thread. You make your money selling day tickets and lift + lodging deals to the tourons. They're not usually "real skiers" and they're mostly looking for intermediate groomers for an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon after a leisurly lunch.

Now that Stowe has lost access to infinite free money for capital improvements, they're going to have a lot of problems. Anyone who buys the place is likely to have a pile of debt. Ski resorts aren't exactly the safest investments so that debt will have unfavorable interest rates associated with it. The only alternatives are to sucker in a REIT the way Boyne and the Muellers did or find some very deep pockets locals who can squander some of their trustafarian wealth on being ski resort owners. Unlike Sugarbush which went for next to nothing, Stowe as an asset will be under big public scruitiny and AIG won't be able to slide it out the back door to some rich locals.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I was lucky enough to ski Stowe in late November, late February and Mid April. My midwinter trip up there was at the tailend of the Presidents week and I was amazed how easy it was for me to secure last minute hotel reservations in Stowe and the liftlines definitely weren't the way they were when I was in college a decade ago when a day pass was about $50. $89 regular mid-season holiday rate will definitely keep the crowds down.

On my visits to Stowe, I visited Pie-casso, The Shed and The Sunset Grill..in talking with locals..it just seems like the economy has dried up a bit..the housing bubble burst in VT about a year later than the mid-Atlantic. As long as Boston Bob is on the slopes...Stowe will always remain the same!!!!!

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Great, Stowe deserves a bad year.

They have horrible customer service and are always pushing away the real skiers.

I hope they continue to lose money. That will force them back to reality.

Please explain your bad customer service experience with Stowe? I just buy a lift ticket and that's all I deal with that sort of thing..the lifties are a friendly bunch but one of the ones on the Gondola pissed me off..I always seperate my fat skis and stick them a certain way in an outer slot..and the one liftee made me take them in the Gondola..and they;re 193s which sucked..but there were only 3 of us in the cabin...a first for me..Snowlerbladers have it easy..

 

[RootDKJ]

I just don't understand all the hatred towards different ski areas. It's OUR sport everyone. We should be hoping that EVERY mountain is successful, every season.

GSS and I have every reason to be resentful towards Blue, but you know what? I miss spending my weekends there. I love skiing there and will be returning next season.

Quit the hatred towards feeder hills and large mountains. Its just silly.

 

[dalecaluori]

Twice this season I went to Stowe:

One day I went and the conditions were not fantastic. I wrongly assumed that Stowe would have a snow guarantee policy after taking only one run. Little did I know that the value of your ticket decreases by 70% after only taking one run. I was offered a credit for 30% of what I paid for my ticket and would have had to give up my ticket. I was dealt with rudely too being told that my impression of the conditions was wrong.

The same thing happenned to me at Jay Peak and Sugarbush: Both those mountains issued vouchers to come back immediately.

The second day I went I was using a Burton promotion that was supposed to give me a free day ticket. Long story short - the way Stowe tracks the coupon codes was ineffective at distinguishing coupons coming from the same person. The person from which I got the coupon had 5 of them, but only 1 of them was registered in the computer. So, after driving 2 hours to get to Stowe, I was told that my coupon had already been used.

THIS WAS THERE SCREW-UP! And they later admitted to it once the situation was explained. But I'm still waiting for a lift ticket voucher which I doubt I'll ever get.

My problem with the mountain is that they truly don't care about regular folks. I'm sure that had I been a hotel guest I would have been treated differently. Their customer service is horrid for a mountain that supposed to deliver a luxury experience.

Sure, when all you need to do is buy a ticket, who really cares about the people behind the desk; but when or if you ever have a problem at Stowe you'll realize what I'm talking about.

With that said, Stowe is a good ski hill and it is sad if ski resorts do not make money. My opinion though is that companies who wrongly treat their customers shouldn't be profitable. Jay Peak, Sugarbush, Smuggs all provide significantly more value.

In the future I will assure myself that I will never have to deal with their customer service representatives ever again. Purchase ticket - Ski all day - Go Home! (With a packed lunch of course)

 

[riverc0il]

Sour grapes from the just recently registered user. Buyer beware and you can't please everyone certainly applies. While Stowe is expensive, I have never paid more than $40 to ski there and I have never had any service issues. Then again, I don't recall really having any service issues any where. Always a good idea to check out the refund/voucher policy before you buy a ticket. Many mountains don't offer ANY refund/voucher program. 70% of purchase price is not that bad and is probably readily available information.

How a thread about Stowe's profitability this year got turned into a dissertation on two services issues is beyond me.

 

[Highway Star]

Twice this season I went to Stowe:

One day I went and the conditions were not fantastic. I wrongly assumed that Stowe would have a snow guarantee policy after taking only one run. Little did I know that the value of your ticket decreases by 70% after only taking one run. I was offered a credit for 30% of what I paid for my ticket and would have had to give up my ticket. I was dealt with rudely too being told that my impression of the conditions was wrong.

The same thing happenned to me at Jay Peak and Sugarbush: Both those mountains issued vouchers to come back immediately.

The second day I went I was using a Burton promotion that was supposed to give me a free day ticket. Long story short - the way Stowe tracks the coupon codes was ineffective at distinguishing coupons coming from the same person. The person from which I got the coupon had 5 of them, but only 1 of them was registered in the computer. So, after driving 2 hours to get to Stowe, I was told that my coupon had already been used.

THIS WAS THERE SCREW-UP! And they later admitted to it once the situation was explained. But I'm still waiting for a lift ticket voucher which I doubt I'll ever get.

My problem with the mountain is that they truly don't care about regular folks. I'm sure that had I been a hotel guest I would have been treated differently. Their customer service is horrid for a mountain that supposed to deliver a luxury experience.

Sure, when all you need to do is buy a ticket, who really cares about the people behind the desk; but when or if you ever have a problem at Stowe you'll realize what I'm talking about.

With that said, Stowe is a good ski hill and it is sad if ski resorts do not make money. My opinion though is that companies who wrongly treat their customers shouldn't be profitable. Jay Peak, Sugarbush, Smuggs all provide significantly more value.

In the future I will assure myself that I will never have to deal with their customer service representatives ever again. Purchase ticket - Ski all day - Go Home! (With a packed lunch of course)

You have to be kidding me. I had a pass at Stowe two years ago, and they have some of the best customer service in the east. They are known for it. The staff is very well trained and very helpful overall.

Oh yeah....who uses the "snow guarantee" anyway? This is the east. Conditions are bad sometimes, if you don't like it, don't go out. If this is a habitual thing for you, you should have checked the policy.

You strike me as a difficult customer.....

 

[dalecaluori]

I understand that my experience with Stowe is probably not consistent with everyone's.

I'm sure there are some fine employees who work there. Maybe, I've just been unlucky.

Like I said, in the future, I'll be going on days when I'm absolutely sure the skiing will be worth it. Lesson learned for me.

All I'm saying is that comparatively to other resorts in Vermont, Stowe doesn't strike me as a leader in customer service. Just my experience.

Perhaps I was a little harsh in saying that they deserve a bad year. I too wish that every ski resort is profitable.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

You strike me as a difficult customer.....

Times Two!!!!

 

[deadheadskier]

You strike me as a difficult customer.....

Wow, the messiah of difficult customer's calling someone out

I've seen it all :lol:

 

[frozencorn]

I was lucky enough to ski Stowe in late November, late February and Mid April. My midwinter trip up there was at the tailend of the Presidents week and I was amazed how easy it was for me to secure last minute hotel reservations in Stowe and the liftlines definitely weren't the way they were when I was in college a decade ago when a day pass was about $50. $89 regular mid-season holiday rate will definitely keep the crowds down.

On my visits to Stowe, I visited Pie-casso, The Shed and The Sunset Grill..in talking with locals..it just seems like the economy has dried up a bit..the housing bubble burst in VT about a year later than the mid-Atlantic. As long as Boston Bob is on the slopes...Stowe will always remain the same!!!!!

On my visit there last week, I was kinda chagrined at the number of business on Mtn Road that seem to be going under. Hotels, restaurants...scary. It was the biggest collection I've seen at at ski town all season.

Amd yeah, bad customer service? Please. Bad owners, obviously. But the people that work at Stowe proper, and anywhere in town shouldn't get such a bad rep. That's unfair and inaccurate.

 

[dalecaluori]

Amd yeah, bad customer service? Please. Bad owners, obviously. But the people that work at Stowe proper, and anywhere in town shouldn't get such a bad rep. That's unfair and inaccurate.

I completely agree.

The employees are simply enforcing the rules set forth by the ownership.

Anyway, could go back and forth all day about this. Maybe I'm a difficult customer...

But what's wrong with asking for a lift ticket voucher when you've only taken one run and one of the mountain's major lifts is on wind hold? What's the harm in letting the customer come back on a day that he or she can have more fun and gain a better impression of the mountain?

But I guess I'm just a whiner...

 

[gpetrics]

They then jam the resort full of unprofitable college pass customers who terrorize the rich people they're trying to attract.

i'm neither disagreeing with you or agreeing with you (cause i have no idea, and had never thought of this before), but if that is a true perception amongst full price users of the mtn, then that is pretty durn hilarious. obviously it sux for those terrorized, but only if it has some pain in it does it make you laugh ;- )

i guess i'm one of those college student terrorists, but i only use the lifts to get to other things on mt mansfield.

wonder what this means stowe will do next year though? no college passes? bring the other prices down a few notches?

 

[Geoff]

i'm neither disagreeing with you or agreeing with you (cause i have no idea, and had never thought of this before), but if that is a true perception amongst full price users of the mtn, then that is pretty durn hilarious. obviously it sux for those terrorized, but only if it has some pain in it does it make you laugh ;- )

i guess i'm one of those college student terrorists, but i only use the lifts to get to other things on mt mansfield.

wonder what this means stowe will do next year though? no college passes? bring the other prices down a few notches?

You are obviously at a different skill level from many/most of the college pass people. If you're a wealthy accountant from the flatlands (intermediate, low fitness level) shelling out large dollars to ski the groomers at Stowe, you're not going to be thrilled with getting you and your family strafed by groups of chemically impared college students on snowboards & twin tips. I ski Killington so I'm used to it. You should have seen The Stash at Killington during the college break periods. Testerosterone, weed, really low skills, and a terrain park makes for a lot of sled trips and you definitely wanted to keep your speed up to avoid getting run down by the people straightlining the groomers off that lift. A family of four shelling out a couple of grand for a weekend at Stowe isn't looking for that kind of experience.

 

[gpetrics]

You are obviously at a different skill level from many/most of the college pass people. If you're a wealthy accountant from the flatlands (intermediate, low fitness level) shelling out large dollars to ski the groomers at Stowe, you're not going to be thrilled with getting you and your family strafed by groups of chemically impared college students on snowboards & twin tips. I ski Killington so I'm used to it. You should have seen The Stash at Killington during the college break periods. Testerosterone, weed, really low skills, and a terrain park makes for a lot of sled trips and you definitely wanted to keep your speed up to avoid getting run down by the people straightlining the groomers off that lift. A family of four shelling out a couple of grand for a weekend at Stowe isn't looking for that kind of experience.

wow...sounds crappy

hope my original post didn't come across as flaming you btw. i believe it... just had never even thought about it before, and it definitely intrigued me. now that you spell it out, it makes perfect sense too.