Blue Mountain wind turbines vs. migrating raptors

[legalskier]

...or rather clean alternative energy vs. coal mining pollution?

“The nation's growing thirst for alternative energy has descended on a section of the ridge known as Blue Mountain in Lower Towamensing Township, Pa..... A ski resort, interested in cutting electrical costs, built a test tower in December to monitor the potential output for at least one large, commercial turbine, and another resort in Delaware, Pa., has similar plans.****Wildlife have collided with the giant, blindly rotating blades of wind-power for 25 years in places like California's Altamont Pass.****In West Virginia, where turbine fields already have been built, many activists contend there are worse things than shredded birds and bats.”

Read more: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/08/arrival_of_windmills_to_nj_may.html

 

[RootDKJ]

You can't make this stuff up!!!

 

[Glenn]

You can't have it both ways. We're a country full of complainers.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Well the proposed private race track which was supposed to go in a few miles down the road was axed..it was going to be like a country club for motorsports enthusiasts. The environmentalists usually win. The test wind turbine made the mountain look even higher..like the antenna on the Empire State Building..I don't really care either way..as long as the ski patrollers are friendly after their mandatory customer service seminar.

 

[4aprice]

Where's Delaware, PA and whats the other resort? Don't know how I would feel about coming upon a shredded bird on the slopes.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[billski]

The last stats I saw indicated the number of aviary shreds was quite low, when considering the value derrived. We kill more wildlife by auto exhaust, coal fire generators, toxic waste disposal and poor land management.

 

[tarponhead]

The last stats I saw indicated the number of aviary shreds was quite low, when considering the value derrived. We kill more wildlife by auto exhaust, coal fire generators, toxic waste disposal and poor land management.

Bingo!

 

[billski]

A lot of work has been done recently to "tune" the turbine rpm's to the local environment. Most impact assessments call for a study of in-flight bird and studies have concluded what rpm range gives the birds opportunity to notice and react. A number of projects have drastically reduced shreds by simply adjusting rpms. Second, faster rpms is not always the best way to generate electricity or keep your gear from breaking apart.

To me, the turbines blemish the hillsides no more or less than the old fire towers or the proliferation of cell phone towers.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Where's Delaware, PA and whats the other resort? Don't know how I would feel about coming upon a shredded bird on the slopes.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

I'm guessing that's Shawnee

 

[Marc]

I know there's lots of research done on this problem, and I accept that it's correct and accurate, but still, intuitively, isn't it incredible that creatures known for such accute eyesite they can spot a mouse in a hayfield from a couple hundred feet away don't notice 150 ft diameter, bright white turbine blades?

 

[bigbog]

.........

The last stats I saw indicated the number of aviary shreds was quite low, when considering the value derrived. We kill more wildlife by auto exhaust, coal fire generators, toxic waste disposal and poor land management.

1+

 

[4aprice]

I'm guessing that's Shawnee

You would think a NJ paper would know the town as Shawnee on the Delaware. Never heard it described as just Delaware. They should have gone ahead with the Tocks Island project. That would have produced a ton of energy and provided a nice lake as well.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[gorgonzola]

this one could shape up to be pretty interesting as the same wind patterns along the ridge of blue mountain that they want to turn the blades are used by hundreds of migratory hawks and eagles each year. i'm not a super tree hugger/leaf licker but this is a little different than out in the middle of a field somewhere. go up to hawk mountain or bake oven knob this fall (we try to get up every year as its pretty amazing) and see just how many freakin cool ass birds use this route that they want to stick these things in - i think it'll be a tuff sell if they pose a danger.

 

[tarponhead]

I know there's lots of research done on this problem, and I accept that it's correct and accurate, but still, intuitively, isn't it incredible that creatures known for such accute eyesite they can spot a mouse in a hayfield from a couple hundred feet away don't notice 150 ft diameter, bright white turbine blades?

Evolution; not programed to anticipate a hard object where there was empty space moments before.

 

[Glenn]

I know there's lots of research done on this problem, and I accept that it's correct and accurate, but still, intuitively, isn't it incredible that creatures known for such accute eyesite they can spot a mouse in a hayfield from a couple hundred feet away don't notice 150 ft diameter, bright white turbine blades?

HA! Yeah, that is some amazing irony. And when those things spin, they're not exactly quiet. I'd imagine they're louder the closer you get to them.

 

[legalskier]

I remember reading My Side of the Mountain by Jean Craighead George to my kids when they were little, the famous trilogy about a boy and his peregrine falcon named Frightful. She would migrate from the Catskills to the Galapagos Islands every year. The books were instrumental in banning D.D.T. from the U.S., and also happen to be wonderful stories for children that I recommend heartily. So part of me would be hypocritical if I didn’t voice support for these beautiful creatures. On the other hand, clean alternative energy is a laudable goal that I believe in, and if it can help a ski area survive, all the better. I did some research and found that there’s a promising technology that would allow the two to co-exist:

“Radar Could Protect Birds From Wind Generators
As the number of wind farms increases in the United States the number of bird deaths will likely go up. Designers are looking to a variety of ways to avoid wildlfie harm. One involves radar. Alternative-energy-news.info reports: The new Peñascal wind farm in Texas hopes to become a model for responsible development by installing new radar technology to protect migratory birds and wildlife. The same technology was originally developed for NASA and the US Air Force. It can detect approaching birds up to four miles away and assess their altitude, numbers and visibility. It then analyzes weather conditions to determine if they are in danger of flying into wind turbine blades. If so, the turbines are programmed to automatically shut down and restart once the birds are a safe distance away.”
http://blogs.nwf.org/arctic_promise/2009/07/radar-could-protect-birds-from-wind-generators.html

 

[Glenn]

I remember that book as well. I didn't know it had anything to do with DDT. I thought that was more with "Silent Spring". Shame too...lots of research indicates DDT could have saved a lot of human lives; especially in poorer nations like Africa.

 

[legalskier]

I remember that book as well. I didn't know it had anything to do with DDT. I thought that was more with "Silent Spring". Shame too...lots of research indicates DDT could have saved a lot of human lives; especially in poorer nations like Africa.

You’re right about Silent Spring, but the struggle took a while and George’s works contributed as well, like “Who Really Killed Cock Robin?” It’s astonishing but D.D.T. is still in use in South and Central America (often for malaria control though there are safer alternatives nowadays). Migrating raptors get exposed to it there; when they return they lay eggs whose shells are too thin to allow the chicks to come to term. The parents eventually get poisoned themselves and die. This is mentioned in Frighful’s Mountain, the last book in the trilogy. Frightful escaped this fate by wintering in the pristine Galapagos.

However, some raptors no longer migrate because cities like New York lure them with plenty of food, like pigeons. There are many nesting pairs of peregrines there. Once again, nature adapts to human foibles.

 

[mondeo]

A lot of work has been done recently to "tune" the turbine rpm's to the local environment. Most impact assessments call for a study of in-flight bird and studies have concluded what rpm range gives the birds opportunity to notice and react. A number of projects have drastically reduced shreds by simply adjusting rpms. Second, faster rpms is not always the best way to generate electricity or keep your gear from breaking apart.

To me, the turbines blemish the hillsides no more or less than the old fire towers or the proliferation of cell phone towers.

High tip speeds are key to efficiency. It decreases the angle of attack needed to generate the same amount of power, which improves the lift/drag of the airfoil. There's a reason jet engines run as close to supersonic tip speeds as possible, or even run airfoils transonically (supersonic tip, subsonic root.) Or with equal lift coefficients, you generate more power.

Depending on design, there is a drop off in efficiency with tip speed, but I guarantee that if you're slowing a turbine down from where it would have run purely to give birds a better chance, you're hurting efficiency.

You’re right about Silent Spring, but the struggle took a while and George’s works contributed as well, like “Who Really Killed Cock Robin?” It’s astonishing but D.D.T. is still in use in South and Central America (often for malaria control though there are safer alternatives nowadays). Migrating raptors get exposed to it there; when they return they lay eggs whose shells are too thin to allow the chicks to come to term. The parents eventually get poisoned themselves and die. This is mentioned in Frighful’s Mountain, the last book in the trilogy. Frightful escaped this fate by wintering in the pristine Galapagos.

However, some raptors no longer migrate because cities like New York lure them with plenty of food, like pigeons. There are many nesting pairs of peregrines there. Once again, nature adapts to human foibles.

What's a safer alternative to DDT for malaria control? It's perfectly safe for humans, it's by far the cheapest method of malaria control, and has essentially no environmental impact. Malaria control is a completely different story than as an agricultural insecticide. Rachel Carson is a mass murderer in my book.

On the question of birds vs. wind turbines, what's the trade, and is it worth it? Nobody approaches the issue rationally. It's either save the environment, or save the birds, or do this, do that. I've never seen hard numbers. How many tons of CO2 is a single bird worth? How many tons of CO2 reduction would save a single bird?

Wind turbines kill birds. It's a fact. But all the qualitative bickering in the world doesn't mean a thing, because saving birds vs. reducing CO2 emissions aren't being quantitatively traded against each other. Where's the data?

Oh, yeah. Environmentalists hate data, unless it clearly backs them up. Forgot about that.

 

[RootDKJ]

Couldn't we just put up a "WARNING - Large Wind Turbines Ahead" sign?:dunce: