Killington snowmaking to start Oct. 26th, plus misc hype....

[Highway Star]

I love how you quote this as if it represents a major concession or breakthrough. Having an upper mtn lift on the Canyon side of the hill is a no-brainer prerequisite for extending the season earlier. It's no mistake that KOD has been much later since the K-1 went in.

Yay - you win the Internet!

It certainly does. It's been 2+ years of publicly ignoring the concept. I want to know how many times they need do get rained out in early and mid November before it sinks in with Nyberg that they can't reliably open (and stay open in November) on the K-1.

They lucked out the last two years with the weather (well, except for when they had to close the next two weekends after opening early last year....hummmmmm) (or the year before where they held off opening for a week and all the snow got rained on....ooops)

In '06, they opened ON THANKSGIVING. They had lots of snow made in the North Ridge area 3 weeks before, which melted out extensively before they could make snow on the lower route. They turned on the lower guns the Sunday before Thanksgiving and were able to get a few decent days of snowmaking. They made it by the absolute narrowest of margins, it must have been super expensive, but the weather was excellent over that weekend and they had crowds.

But it was lucky the weather turned around for them. It could have easily rained MORE in Nov. '06, and stopped them from opening at all for the Thanksgiving weekend. With the current strategy, it WILL happen eventually. Is that at all acceptable?

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Excessive snowmaking has real costs, both economic and environmental. Snowmaking when conditions are not in the ideal range (a factor of both temperature and humidity) is highly inefficient. As this report notes, during an Aspen study, "snow was made at Aspen Mountain in November on eight occasions at ambient temperatures greater than 32°F and on seven occasions at ambient temperatures below 32°F. The eight events when ambient temperatures were greater than 32°F accounted for only 17 percent of the total amount of manmade snow produced in that month, and the other seven events accounted for the remaining 83 percent." Technology has made snowmaking more efficient, but prudent operation also plays a role. I love skiing, even on early-season WROD, but I also feel some sense of responsibility to reduce our sport's impact on the environment.

Wait - so you're telling me that snowmaking is more efficient during colder weather? You don't say! Any more discoveries you can lay on us?

Also, rather than the avg temp for Rutland in all of October, wouldn't it be slightly more relevant to find out what the average temperature is 3000' higher on the hill during the last two weeks of October? No one is skiing in Rutland, and an early October opening is unlikely in all but the coldest of early seasons., so that's a much more useful barometer.

Regardless, you are completely ignoring the marketing value of being able to crow about the longest season in the East year after year. That's what drives enthusiasm for both season ticket sales as well as weekenders/daytrippers from Nov 15 through X-Mas. If K has been open since October 20, and they have a rep for covering the hill with snow at every chance, I'm likely picking that place to spend my limited skiing dollars if I'm not committed to one mountain.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

It certainly does. It's been 2+ years of publicly ignoring the concept. I want to know how many times they need do get rained out in early and mid Novemeber before it sinks in with Nyberg that they can't reliably open (and stay open in November) on the K-1.

Wait - so you actually believe that since they didn't install a new upper mtn lift in their first two years of owning the mtn then the statement up thread means they've finally seen the light?

You've made some doozies in terms of self-aggrandizing claims here and elsewhere, but that may just take the cake.

I think POWDR doesn't know their ass from their elbow, but even I can admit that the years of deferred maintenance they inherited from ASC were priorities 1, 2, 3 and 4 in terms of capital when they took over.

 

[Highway Star]

Wait - so you actually believe that since they didn't install a new upper mtn lift in their first two years of owning the mtn then the statement up thread means they've finally seen the light?

You've made some doozies in terms of self-aggrandizing claims here and elsewhere, but that may just take the cake.

I think POWDR doesn't know their ass from their elbow, but even I can admit that the years of deferred maintenance they inherited from ASC were priorities 1, 2, 3 and 4 in terms of capital when they took over.

Talking is the first step in actually building it. Muche better than not talking about it.

 

[ta&idaho]

Wait - so you're telling me that snowmaking is more efficient during colder weather? You don't say! Any more discoveries you can lay on us?

The point of that Aspen study isn't that colder temps mean better snowmaking, its that they discovered that they had essentially been wasting their efforts half the time. I used it as an example of the value in being selective in deploying snowmaking resources.

Also, rather than the avg temp for Rutland in all of October, wouldn't it be slightly more relevant to find out what the average temperature is 3000' higher on the hill during the last two weeks of October? No one is skiing in Rutland, and an early October opening is unlikely in all but the coldest of early seasons., so that's a much more useful barometer.

Yeah, I used Rutland data because that's what I could find. The point is simply that its still pretty warm in early October, and there are warm and rainy streaks well past then. Blowing snow with the goal of opening in early October presents an unreasonably high risk that it will end up being a wasted effort. That's a shame in my book, even if some seasons it works out.

Regardless, you are completely ignoring the marketing value of being able to crow about the longest season in the East year after year. That's what drives enthusiasm for both season ticket sales as well as weekenders/daytrippers from Nov 15 through X-Mas. If K has been open since October 20, and they have a rep for covering the hill with snow at every chance, I'm likely picking that place to spend my limited skiing dollars if I'm not committed to one mountain.

I certainly understand the potential marketing value, but I hope that as a skiing community we think critically about the impact that various ski resort operational decisions have on the environment. After all, we have a lot to lose.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I guess I take myself remotely as a serious skier and have no desire to ski the WROD at Killington just because it opens a week or two ahead of my home mountain.

then you're not a serious skier..serious skiers drive from Pennsylvania for the ribbon..

 

[Vortex]

Picking the ski industry to base your green view around is hard to do

. Many use wind credits and Low e guns and recycle. Some use alternative fuels for the Grooming equipment. Its till not a real strong statement. Kind of like using a motor boat on a lake.

When you start talking about the energy used to run compressors early season... I think that is going a bit far.

 

[thetrailboss]

Picking the ski industry to base your green view around is hard to do

. Many use wind credits and Low e guns and recycle. Some use alternative fuels for the Grooming equipment. Its till not a real strong statement. Kind of like using a motor boat on a lake.

When you start talking about the energy used to run compressors early season... I think that is going a bit far.

+ 1.

It's not as bad as the "green" energy company next door to my office, in which there are almost ALWAYS more SUV's in the lot than hybrids or more fuel efficient sedans. Today out of the 12 cars in their lot, 8 were full sized SUV's...not hybrids, but regular, SUV's. These are employees too.

The ski industry is doing their best. Snowmaking is an absolute evil.

And I must say, it takes a big set to come into a ski chat room, when people are really jonesin' for skiing and restless, and to say, "quit your whining about no early season skiing." Maybe it is brave, but maybe it is not so smart. I dunno... :wink:

 

[powhunter]

wait - so you're telling me that snowmaking is more efficient during colder weather? You don't say! Any more discoveries you can lay on us?

lmao!!!!!!!

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

+ 1.

It's not as bad as the "green" energy company next door to my office, in which there are almost ALWAYS more SUV's in the lot than hybrids or more fuel efficient sedans. Today out of the 12 cars in their lot, 8 were full sized SUV's...not hybrids, but regular, SUV's. These are employees too.

The ski industry is doing their best. Snowmaking is an absolute evil.

And I must say, it takes a big set to come into a ski chat room, when people are really jonesin' for skiing and restless, and to say, "quit your whining about no early season skiing." Maybe it is brave, but maybe it is not so smart. I dunno... :wink:

times two

 

[ta&idaho]

And I must say, it takes a big set to come into a ski chat room, when people are really jonesin' for skiing and restless, and to say, "quit your whining about no early season skiing." Maybe it is brave, but maybe it is not so smart. I dunno... :wink:

Good point -- upon further reflection, maybe it was my own restless jonesin' that led me to pick such a silly fight in the first place. :wink:

And who am I kidding? The one time I've ever been able to ski in October I was absolutely giddy. My apologies for the over-the-top, self-righteous moralizing.

 

[thetrailboss]

Good point -- upon further reflection, maybe it was my own restless jonesin' that led me to pick such a silly fight in the first place. :wink:

And who am I kidding? The one time I've ever been able to ski in October I was absolutely giddy. My apologies for the over-the-top, self-righteous moralizing.

I was being tongue and cheek. I just was because saying something like that would be like:

Things have been really bad this offseason. I think it is the economy and the rainy NE weather that has made it worse.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I was being tongue and cheek. I just was because saying something like that would be like:

Things have been really bad this offseason. I think it is the economy and the rainy NE weather that has made it worse.

According to Newsweek the recession is over..book your hotel rooms now..the 6 mountains of Killington..7 if you count Pico are gonna be packed this season..especially with the $50 lift tickets...I laughed a little then Tax Idaho was talking about Rutland temperatures...Rutland is practically Subtropical compared to the rugged Alpine environment of Mount Killington..almost as hi as Mount Stowe..

 

[Geoff]

Snowmaking is an absolute evil.

WTF! This is a "banned for life" statement.

The Killington upper limit for their diesel permit is a million gallons. To get their skier visits, they see at least 100,000 cars doing 500 mile round trips from Dirty Jersey and LonGisland. Assume 20 mpg. That's 2.5 million gallons of gasoline and that absolutely has to be on the low side. The diesel for snowmaking is lost in the noise of all the gasoline burned

 

[snoseek]

I have no idea what the previous 7 pages contained but I just want to post to help this Killington thread reach ten pages like the rest of them. Carry on!

 

[icedtea]

So what costumes are you all going to wear for Halloween on the mountain?

 

[Newpylong]

For the record.

Spinmeister has already said numerous times they have been looking at Upper Mt lift options. You just keep saying they should put in a handle tow or a midstation on K1. I can almost guarantee you they aren't looking at either of those as viable.

 

[Highway Star]

Spinmeister has already said numerous times they have been looking at Upper Mt lift options. You just keep saying they should put in a handle tow or a midstation on K1. I can almost guarantee you they aren't looking at either of those as viable.

For the record, I've suggested various upper mountain lifts.

 

[Newpylong]

For the record, I've suggested various upper mountain lifts.

Would the forest service allow them to replace the Glades Triple with something going up higher?

That's one I have never thought of... I think it's safe to say nothing can or will happen on the front so they would be looking at the sides...

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

:uzi:

I have no idea what the previous 7 pages contained but I just want to post to help this Killington thread reach ten pages like the rest of them. Carry on!

LAME Post..contribute somehing..:uzi: