On slope collisions

[bobbutts]

Someone turning erratically in front of you isn't dangerous.

So you feel it's safest to turn erratically in front of people?
Get my point yet?

 

[Morwax]

So you feel it's safest to turn erratically in front of people?
Get my point yet?

I guess I dont get your point:dunce:

 

[bobbutts]

In an accident involving a fast moving skier colliding with a skier who is skiing erratically across a trail, the fast moving skier will technically be at fault based on the responsibility code. What I'm saying is that regardless of who the police/patrol/board members blame, the erratic zig-zagger is going to be involved in more collisions vs. someone who skis predictably because the zig-zagging is inherently dangerous even if it's not a violation of any code.

 

[Morwax]

In an accident involving a fast moving skier colliding with a skier who is skiing erratically across a trail, the fast moving skier will technically be at fault based on the responsibility code. What I'm saying is that regardless of who the police/patrol/board members blame, the erratic zig-zagger is going to be involved in more collisions vs. someone who skis predictably because the zig-zagging is inherently dangerous even if it's not a violation of any code.

Technically AND legally responsible.
Again I see no ambiguity in the code when it comes to this situation.
Awfully selfish to put someone elses health or safety at risk so you can hold a line or pretend your in a race.
Where you ever a zig-zagger or did you skip right to pro?

 

[billski]

:flag::flag::highfive:

When are you heading back out on the hill buddy?:comfort:

Not looking like it's gonna happen. birthday, anniversary, Easter.
I had a bang-up final two days: Paradise, Stowe slack country. Someone in my posse got hurt, kinda put a damper on things.

Hey, there's still snow in my yard!

 

[bobbutts]

Technically AND legally responsible.
Again I see no ambiguity in the code when it comes to this situation.
Awfully selfish to put someone elses health or safety at risk so you can hold a line or pretend your in a race.
Where you ever a zig-zagger or did you skip right to pro?

I'm not claiming to be a pro or anywhere close to it, just a solid recreational skier and snowboarder with plenty of experience. I never crashed into anyone or even had a close call. I'm just saying don't zig zag or else you're more likely to get hit (not by me, I'll avoid you).

 

[gmcunni]

who is at fault ?

 

[speden]

who is at fault ?

Insufficient video evidence. If the girl was stopped and then restarted without looking uphill for traffic, I'd say she was at fault. If she was just poking along slowly down the trail, then the uphill skier was at fault. If the cameraman was overweight and blocked the uphill skiers view of the downhill traffic, then he was at fault.

 

[wa-loaf]

who is at fault ?

2Knees is always at fault. :lol:

 

[Black Phantom]

Not looking like it's gonna happen. birthday, anniversary, Easter.
I had a bang-up final two days: Paradise, Stowe slack country. Someone in my posse got hurt, kinda put a damper on things.

Hey, there's still snow in my yard!

How about making a run up to the Institution for May 1 to see what it's all about?:beer::comfort:

You could cover many bases and file your last beloved trip report. An intertwined web...

 

[from_the_NEK]

who is at fault ?

Theres not "at fault" in this sequence. Even though the bump skier was going fast. He was still under control enough to make a quick adjustment to keep from hitting the girl. Exactly what is expected. She fell over from the surprise of seeing someone coming straight at her (I don't think he even hit her skis). In this case, no collision = no problem. It looks like she may have popped out from a connecting trail without looking. I would still apologize for scaring her, but I would also give her some diplomatic advice about merging onto trails.

BTW where are the chairs with people on them going up hill? I don't know if I've ever seen a chair with a separate set of towers for the return line.

 

[Robbski]

I don't see the "right of way" as being the right issue. The code speaks of responsibility not rights and there is a difference.

That said, the kid was clearly over her head on a fairly narrow bump trail and shouldn't have been there but the onus is on the uphill skier (the bump skier) who should have checked up sooner if he saw an obvious gaper ahead. If she just popped out, well it was an accident and shit happens when you are on slippery stuff going fast. But I think they both handled it well once it went wrong.

 

[2knees]

2Knees is always at fault. :lol:

lol, that was a great day but she wrecked a really nice line there.

In this case, I saw her standing there, she was looking at me and I at her so I went. Much to my surprise, after i got going, she just kinda pulled out into the line. We didnt collide but it was close and I did apologize immediately. I probably should've just waited for her to go further down but I thought she was aware that I was coming on through.

shit happens.

 

[Highway Star]

Someone turning erratically in front of you isn't dangerous. If you are overtaking them at a speed and distance where you can't avoid hitting them if they suddenly change direction, you are being dangerous.

Normally we think of 'unexpected turners' as inexperienced people, but what if there's an unmarked hazard? What if someone launches out of the woods in front of the person you're overtaking and they have to swerve? Yes, it's less fun to slow down and hang back until you have a safe space to pass, but them's the rules. If you don't like it, find a less crowded trail and/or resort.

Getting rear-ended is another story. I got hit three times in one weekend at Killington this fall and I was stopped, visible, out of the traffic pattern for two of them. Just newbie skiers/riders that were out of control and couldn't stop. No injuries, but annoying anyway.

FWIW, my biggest gripe is when a mountain has all these 'mountain ambassadors' or whatever hanging around, yet they don't do anything about people out of control, launching out of the trees without looking, stopping where they can't be seen from above, etc. There needs to be a lot more of this 'heads up, know the code' campaign. The rule adherence has been getting worse lately.

You're obviously doing something wrong. I ski Killington and have never been hit.

 

[Highway Star]

lol, that was a great day but she wrecked a really nice line there.

In this case, I saw her standing there, she was looking at me and I at her so I went. Much to my surprise, after i got going, she just kinda pulled out into the line. We didnt collide but it was close and I did apologize immediately. I probably should've just waited for her to go further down but I thought she was aware that I was coming on through.

shit happens.

Pretty much happens all the time at Killington. I'll usually wait until an entire trail clears before doing GS/Super-G turns, because you never know what the stopped people are going to go.

The other day, I was waiting to rip GS/SG on lower double dipper. Stopped at the end of the breakover, about 1/4 way down, where it gets steep. Waited several minutes for groups to pass and ski down. Was clear except for two people about 300 yards down, opposite the end of the snowmaking line, at the bottom of downdraft. Yelled at the top of my lungs and then went. About 4 turns and I'm at 50-60+ mph, from a standstill I've covered half the distance in them in less than 10 seconds. Then they ski out blindly into the middle of the trail. Have to make a long sweeping speed check turn/slide, because there just wasn't enough room to safely avoid them at speed in that area of the trail, due to a partial groom.

Granted, they probably couldn't hear my yell, but did they look up hill? If they did, did they look far enough to see me and judge my closing speed? Evidently not.

68 mph is 100 ft/sec. That's a football field in 3 seconds.

 

[2knees]

ever worry about catching an edge at that speed?

I've seen some weird crap at k over the years. On the top of the ironic list would be two telemarkers crashing into each other and nearly coming to blows. I thought all tele skiers were comatose hippies. Probably the only 2 tele skiers at the entire place too. In the double take deptartment, i almost got creamed on superstar a few years ago, which by itself isnt that odd but the guy was carrying his kid in his arms as he flew by me at mach 1.

 

[neil]

ever worry about catching an edge at that speed?

Highway Star does not catch edges. Physicists have studied his form and determined it impossible.

 

[Black Phantom]

Highway Star does not catch edges. Physicists have studied his form and determined it impossible.

How could he catch an edge when he lives on it?

 

[Highway Star]

Highway Star does not catch edges. Physicists have studied his form and determined it impossible.

Actually, I worry more about walking out of a binding, even set to 13. I've got a pair of S920's I've been intending to put on those skis.

I'm very selective about when, were and in what conditions I'll ski at those speeds...I took a good long look at DD while riding the CQ before attempting that.

 

[Morwax]

I cant believe we are still arguing that going fast or being in a line somehow overrides the code.
IT DOES NOT!
Yes there are situations where the downhill gaper could use more common sense but think about what we are asking here. That a begginer never venture onto a mogul field until they can ski it? How would they ever learn? IMHO the slower and less capable ALWAYS get the benefit of the doubt
In the video the question gets asked whos at fault...I say the bump skier:beer: