Killllington 🎿🏂🏂🎿🎿🏂🏂🎿😀

[drjeff]

* Zero June openings pre-World Cup, but 5 out of 7 years post World Cup (excluding covid and superstar construction years)
* 75% of pre-World Cup years had October openings but only 22% (2 of 9) post WC

Going deep into May or June often has more to do with weather luck than how much snow they put on SS in the final build out. It has seemed, anecdotcally atleast to me, that while it's now taking another few weeks in the Fall for more consistent windows of cold air to arrive and stay, it also has seemed to me that April in particular and often into early May , have seemed like the cooler weather pattern has lingered a few extra weeks which has helped with later closing dates. Now this year, Mother Nature decided that often cold, juicy rain events was going to be her weekend modus operandi from say early/mid April on...

 

[mister moose]

* Zero June openings pre-World Cup, but 5 out of 7 years post World Cup (excluding covid and superstar construction years)

You also have to take into account the management style changes that occurred over time. Pre 2017 they stayed open as late as they could with decent skiability. (the Nyberg years were April or early May closings) Post 2107 the June Tshirts started and the June goal was strong. So strong they introduced rappelling down the headwall on ropes attached to snow cats, and multiple mud skiing stretches. They were willing to push it farther on less snow. So much less some years the snow was gone by noon on a lot of the trail.

They also now in the last 3 years have GPS snow depth in the cab, and can farm with far better precision. It's not just about how much snow was blown.

So yes, not much difference.

Going deep into May or June often has more to do with weather luck than how much snow they put on SS in the final build out. It has seemed, anecdotcally atleast to me, that while it's now taking another few weeks in the Fall for more consistent windows of cold air to arrive and stay, it also has seemed to me that April in particular and often into early May , have seemed like the cooler weather pattern has lingered a few extra weeks which has helped with later closing dates. Now this year, Mother Nature decided that often cold, juicy rain events was going to be her weekend modus operandi from say early/mid April on...

Every year is different, and I assure you this one coming will be different as well! For instance 24-25 had very good snow totals, but no big dumps, it just dribbled in all season, decent cold after Tday for the Christmas build, a good stretch from MLK into early March, a March heat wave, then an onslaught of rainy weekends. We will not see a repeat of that.

 

[joshua segal]

Between 1975 and 2000, there was October skiing 25 of 26 seasons. IMO, the loss of October skiing is all about climate change.

Some of that reflects in the late season when Killington (before the big snow making era) had mid-May skiing on natural snow. If the end of the season is going longer, it’s because of snowmaking. Before that, with a cool May, Killington made it to Memorial Day only a couple of times.

 

[machski]

Well, total depth may not matter as much now for a deep late season run for several reasons. As previously stated, GPS snowdepth tech on the Cats makes farming a more precise science. Second big reason they can go deep is they aren't open 8 days a week into the late season anymore. That was not the case back in the 80's and 90's, they were open everyday for skiing until it ran out. Depth definitely mattered in that era.

 

[Dickc]

Tait Germon on Instagram: "Lots going on @killingtonmtn this summer! We're at the halfway point - three months until we're ready for winter and making snow. Still lots to do! Cool to see Superstar start to go vertical!"

59 likes, 9 comments - tait.germon on August 3, 2025: "Lots going on @killingtonmtn this summer! We're at the halfway point - three months until we're ready for winter and making snow. Still lots to do! Cool to see Superstar start to go vertical!".

www.instagram.com

Copied from lift blog.

 

[slatham]

Between 1975 and 2000, there was October skiing 25 of 26 seasons. IMO, the loss of October skiing is all about climate change.

Some of that reflects in the late season when Killington (before the big snow making era) had mid-May skiing on natural snow. If the end of the season is going longer, it’s because of snowmaking. Before that, with a cool May, Killington made it to Memorial Day only a couple of times

Weren’t most of those pre 2000 Octobers just upper Cascade to mid station? With the Gondi (installed 1997) the operations moved to North Ridge which may have changed the math on October openings.

In any event, October hasn’t been in cards the last several years no matter how much they pushed it. Maybe this is the year……

 

[djd66]

Weren’t most of those pre 2000 Octobers just upper Cascade to mid station? With the Gondi (installed 1997) the operations moved to North Ridge which may have changed the math on October openings.

In any event, October hasn’t been in cards the last several years no matter how much they pushed it. Maybe this is the year……

I was thinking the same thing. The K-chair was a much easier set up for early season with no stair climb to download.

 

[joshua segal]

Weren’t most of those pre 2000 Octobers just upper Cascade to mid station? With the Gondi (installed 1997) the operations moved to North Ridge which may have changed the math on October openings.

In any event, October hasn’t been in cards the last several years no matter how much they pushed it. Maybe this is the year……

Here's data going back to 1976. You can decide for yourselves:

2023-2024 Nov. 3 - June 1
2022-2023 Nov. 17 - June 1
2021-2022 Nov. 5 - June 4
2020-2021 Nov. 20 - May 16
2019-2020 Nov. 3 - March 14 (Covid mandated early closing)
2018-2019 Oct. 19 - June 2
2017-2018 Nov. 8 - May 26
2016/2017 Oct. 25 - June 1
2015/2016 October 18 – May 28 / 81” / 190
2014/2015 November 3 – May 24 / 197” / 192
2013/2014 October 23 – May 18 / 196” / 199
2012/2013*** October 13 – May 26 / 208” / 195
2011/2012 October 29 – April 22 / 152” / 176
2010/2011 November 2 – May 1 / 263” / 179
2009/2010 November 7 – April 25 / 230” / 153
2008/2009** November 2 – May 2 / 283” / 169
2007/2008 November 16 – April 20 / 282” / 157
2006/2007 November 23 – May 6 / 294” / 165
2005/2006* October 29 – May 1 / 191” / 166
2004/2005 November 9 – May 15 / 206” / 188
2003/2004 November 10 – May 12 / 215” / 184
2002/2003 October 25 – May 26 / 291” / 204
2001/2002 November 6 – June 1 / 192” / 202
2000/2001 October 29 – May 27 / 316” / 202
1999/2000 October 25 – May 29 / 209” / 205
1998/1999 October 22 – May 25 / 186” / 204
1997/1998 October 1 – May 25 / 242” / 205
1996/1997 October 4 – June 22 / 301” / 233
1995/1996 October 17 – June 10 / 307” / 224
1994/1995 October 3 – June 4 / 182” / 214
1993/1994 October 1 – June 9 / 279” / 243
1992/1993 October 1 – June 1 / 300” / 229
1991/1992 October 21 – June 14 / 198” / 226
1990/1991 October 27 – May 28 / 206” / 214
1989/1990 October 10 – May 28 / 249” / 208
1988/1989 October 13 – May 21 / 202” / 211
1987/1988 October 12 – June 1 / 238” / 227
1986/1987 October 10 – June 3 / 233” / 224
1985/1986 October 1- June 3 / 198” / 224
1984/1985 November 3 – June 2 / 220” / 212
1983/1984 October 20 – June 21 / 238” / 246
1982/1983 October 17 – June 16 / 197” / 240
1981/1982 October 20 – June 15 / 268” / 225
1980/1981 October 14 – May 27 / 257” / 226
1979/1980 October 10 – May 23 / 138” / 221
1978/1979 October 16 – May 22 / 292” / 219
1977/1978 October 24 – May 23 / 341” / 195
1976/1977 October 27 – May 15 / 346” / 201
1975/1976 October 30 – May 5 / 232” / 173
1974/1975 October 19 – May 12 / 307” / 190
1973/1974 November 5 – April 30 / 193” / 177
1972/1973 October 20 – April 15 / 267” / 184
1971/1972 November 9 – May 18 / 323” / 192
1970/1971 November 18 – May 21 / 334” / 184
1969/1970 October 24 – May 4 / NA” / 178
1968/1969 November 9 – May 10 / NA” / 183
1967/1968 November 5 – April 7 / NA” / 154
1966/1967 November 4 – May 2 / NA” / 180

 

[deadheadskier]

Regarding GPS snow farming; while it's a fabulous technology, aren't you still better off having a deep and solid base to ski on vs moving snow onto dry land to make it another day? Seems to me the latter would melt much, much faster.

 

[drjeff]

Regarding GPS snow farming; while it's a fabulous technology, aren't you still better off having a deep and solid base to ski on vs moving snow onto dry land to make it another day? Seems to me the latter would melt much, much faster.

As I had it explained to me by one of the ops guys at Mount Snow, Ideally, yes, you'd have enough base to not need and push it around, as in late season pushing situations, you have melting from both the top surface down and the ground up, and ground temps will increase at a greater rate if there isn't any snow on top of it. On the flip side, they can also, via the GPS, see where areas of the snowpack on a trail have melted quicker and then pre-emptively push more snow into those thinner areas which will slow the melting, especially from the ground up side of the equation. Reguardless, when they're pushing snow, especially that frozen mass that is down near the ground after a season of compaction, some air will get mixed into the snow, and warm the overal temperature of that frozen base moreso than if it was left undisturbed. But sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do to piece things togther late season

 

[thebigo]

Here's data going back to 1976. You can decide for yourselves:

2023-2024 Nov. 3 - June 1
2022-2023 Nov. 17 - June 1
2021-2022 Nov. 5 - June 4
2020-2021 Nov. 20 - May 16
2019-2020 Nov. 3 - March 14 (Covid mandated early closing)
2018-2019 Oct. 19 - June 2
2017-2018 Nov. 8 - May 26
2016/2017 Oct. 25 - June 1
2015/2016 October 18 – May 28 / 81” / 190
2014/2015 November 3 – May 24 / 197” / 192
2013/2014 October 23 – May 18 / 196” / 199
2012/2013*** October 13 – May 26 / 208” / 195
2011/2012 October 29 – April 22 / 152” / 176
2010/2011 November 2 – May 1 / 263” / 179
2009/2010 November 7 – April 25 / 230” / 153
2008/2009** November 2 – May 2 / 283” / 169
2007/2008 November 16 – April 20 / 282” / 157
2006/2007 November 23 – May 6 / 294” / 165
2005/2006* October 29 – May 1 / 191” / 166
2004/2005 November 9 – May 15 / 206” / 188
2003/2004 November 10 – May 12 / 215” / 184
2002/2003 October 25 – May 26 / 291” / 204
2001/2002 November 6 – June 1 / 192” / 202
2000/2001 October 29 – May 27 / 316” / 202
1999/2000 October 25 – May 29 / 209” / 205
1998/1999 October 22 – May 25 / 186” / 204
1997/1998 October 1 – May 25 / 242” / 205
1996/1997 October 4 – June 22 / 301” / 233
1995/1996 October 17 – June 10 / 307” / 224
1994/1995 October 3 – June 4 / 182” / 214
1993/1994 October 1 – June 9 / 279” / 243
1992/1993 October 1 – June 1 / 300” / 229
1991/1992 October 21 – June 14 / 198” / 226
1990/1991 October 27 – May 28 / 206” / 214
1989/1990 October 10 – May 28 / 249” / 208
1988/1989 October 13 – May 21 / 202” / 211
1987/1988 October 12 – June 1 / 238” / 227
1986/1987 October 10 – June 3 / 233” / 224
1985/1986 October 1- June 3 / 198” / 224
1984/1985 November 3 – June 2 / 220” / 212
1983/1984 October 20 – June 21 / 238” / 246
1982/1983 October 17 – June 16 / 197” / 240
1981/1982 October 20 – June 15 / 268” / 225
1980/1981 October 14 – May 27 / 257” / 226
1979/1980 October 10 – May 23 / 138” / 221
1978/1979 October 16 – May 22 / 292” / 219
1977/1978 October 24 – May 23 / 341” / 195
1976/1977 October 27 – May 15 / 346” / 201
1975/1976 October 30 – May 5 / 232” / 173
1974/1975 October 19 – May 12 / 307” / 190
1973/1974 November 5 – April 30 / 193” / 177
1972/1973 October 20 – April 15 / 267” / 184
1971/1972 November 9 – May 18 / 323” / 192
1970/1971 November 18 – May 21 / 334” / 184
1969/1970 October 24 – May 4 / NA” / 178
1968/1969 November 9 – May 10 / NA” / 183
1967/1968 November 5 – April 7 / NA” / 154
1966/1967 November 4 – May 2 / NA” / 180

K is not the only October player. According to NESH SR opened five of the Octobers that K missed over the last couple decades.

 

[Newpylong]

Two reasons for the lack of October openings:

-The biggest is lack of favorable temps. Most years we are lucky to see good temps in October at all, forget early October or gasp - late September which occured several years. Can you imagine that now?
-Change of venue and product expectations. Early openings on Upper Cascade were fast grass. You had to walk in your boots down Upper GN (which was Boomerang at the time) down to Cascade. Oftentimes the snow didn't quite stretch down to the mid-station either. What they were able to put down was thin cover at best. Not only is there more early season traffic now in North Ridge but people expect a better product and Killington waits until they can deliver one and stay open.

 

[jimmywilson69]

I was young will these early October openings were happening. Did they close regularly after painting the grass?

Its pretty clear they want to open and stay open now. Thats much easier from a staffing standpoint

 

[EPB]

October 1 openings are hard to fathom. It was a different era back then. I think even Attitash opened around 11/9 one year in the late 90s under ASC.

 

[deadheadskier]

Okemo used to be open by Veterans Day weekend every year back then.

 

[Zand]

I would also say a mix of both weather and reality for lack of October openings. Data shows that for New England in particular, September and October are the two months that have the most in the past 30 years or so. November not as much but by then every other ski area is ready to go, so Killington doesn't get the big head start it used to. But yes, also the fact that they used to probably open after 1 night of snowmaking on painted Cascade grass compared to now, and in the past couple decades I've been there early season several times and you'll be lucky to see one dirt spot on all of Rime which is different to what it used to look like.

On the other hand, April has been almost flat temperature wise (and if you ask me I think April tends to be cooler now than it was 20 years ago) so snow preservation many years works out pretty well and spring hasn't been affected at Killington or most other places (other than the years every now and then with a blowtorch March). Plus ultimately they could blow for 2 months straight and create 50 feet of base midwinter if they really wanted to make late June like the old days, but I'm sure the goal is to just blow enough to make June 1st and that's that.

 

[machski]

I was young will these early October openings were happening. Did they close regularly after painting the grass?

Its pretty clear they want to open and stay open now. Thats much easier from a staffing standpoint

Yes. Many of the super early Octobers they would open for 1-3 days and have to close again, sometimes for weeks before the next reopen. They will not do that now. Thus why SR had a Halloween ski day last October and then closed for a few weeks and K did not. K didn't even try for that.

 

[joshua segal]

I was young will these early October openings were happening. Did they close regularly after painting the grass?

Its pretty clear they want to open and stay open now. Thats much easier from a staffing standpoint

Prior to 2015 on the list I posted above, the last number on the line is the number of days they were open. I think there was only one year that if you subtract that number from the number of days between opening and closing that you will get zero closed days.

 

[mister moose]

Two reasons for the lack of October openings:

-The biggest is lack of favorable temps. Most years we are lucky to see good temps in October at all, forget early October or gasp - late September which occured several years. Can you imagine that now?

Why not?

Looking at the Mansfield snow graphs, there's not a lot of support for any changes since the 50's. Look at 56-57, a dismal year. The early October snows are all over the place for which year they happened. Last season there was one of the largest October snows in 75 years, and it was in the top 5 until the March heat wave. The number 2 year for snowpack depth was 01-02. 3rd highest is 2018-19. The rumor of shortened ski seasons in VT is quite overrated.

What has happened over the last 75 years is wide variation in the weather. To adapt the old adage,

"If you don't like the weather this season, wait a year."

Mount Mansfield Snow Depth

Snow depth, forecast, temperature, and wind at the fabled stake on top of Mount Mansfield.

matthewparrilla.com

Click the drop down to select the season you'd like to view.
Click anywhere on a certain snow line and the season will be displayed upper left.
The brown line is last season.

Notice the mid September (small) snowfall in 85-86. I guess that's what people mean when they talk about the great snows of the 80's.

 

[jimmywilson69]

As has been stated different things at play here one of them being cheap energy and labor. There was clearly an appetite to paint the grass and open at any cost. There was convenient lift service that enabled that to happen, too. None of those things are reay true now and thats how it is