Chairlift Death

benski said:

Snowbird has bars on all its lifts. Most of the lifts at Alta now have bars, though locals don't use them.

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uphillklimber said:

It may be that the backs fold down when not in use to keep the seats snow free.

The big advantage of a bar, is that there is at least something to push against, other than air, to keep the kids in the seat.

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thetrailboss said:

I'm pretty sure that the chairs DO have backs. You just can't see them in that picture. Look below:

Couple interesting notes. First, it's a Leitner HSQ that is similar to the Flyer at Jay. I don't think that many pure "Leitner" HSQs were built in the US. Leitner and Poma merged shortly thereafter.

Second, two of the articles mention witness reports that the chair swung into a sign or the tower. Look closely at the pics and you will see odd cross-arm structures that "step down" towards the haul rope and some big signs on the towers. It will be interesting to see if the chair was blowing in the wind, if Mom was sitting on the inside causing it to lean in, or if they were swinging the chair such that it hit the tower. A long ways to go on this one I think in figuring out what happened and who is to blame.

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drjeff said:

Something just seems fishy about that report that the chair swung enough to hit some part of the tower and cause the Mom and her kids to fall off....

Those chairs, even before you put anyone on them, weigh over 200lbs a piece. The grip is designed to physically grip, and not rotate on the haul rope. It takes a breeze of roughly 25-30mph to even get a chair rocking 10 degrees or so in any direction. It takes a bunch of effort by a person to rock a chair, and frankly as a parent I couldn't fathom another parent, putting as much effort, if it's even possible, to physically cause a chair to rock the close to 30 degrees it would take to approach banging into part of the tower, let alone a mother with her 2 young kids on the chair with her! Heck in almost now 40yrs of skiing and thousands upon thousands of chairlift rides in that time frame, only once has a chair I was riding banged into a tower, and that was on the old riblet summit double near the summit of Bromley, with a heavy, gusty post Nor'easter wind hammering the summit. And heck, those chairs literally had glorified "cow catchers" just below the sheave assemblies to stop the chairs themselves from contacting the tower!!

It just feels like there's a significant, important key to this tragedy that is missing.


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Siliconebobsquarepants said:

There was a recent death at Hunter from a fall where the skier hooked the lift ladder with their ski and was pulled off. Not sure if the bar was up or down ? An extended ski could hit the sign or pole ?

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BenedictGomez said:

I agree with Dr. Jeff that this seems odd, given that in addition to the mother, BOTH children fell. I can think of "bar up scenarios" where one child slips and the mother falls attempting to save her, or there's a chair hit and maybe 1 or 2 fall off, but the fact that all 3 departed the chair does seem really odd. Must have been incredibly violent if so.

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Fallingdown said:

I don't know why anyone would ride without the bar down. So many things could happen that result in you falling out of the chair. I feel so sorry for these kids and mother. It is such a tragedy.

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uphillklimber said:

Whatever reason someone gives for leaving the bar up, they do so at their choice (and peril). This sounds so much like the 'not wearing a seatbelt, so if I am in an accident, I can get out of the car faster before it starts to burn'.

Whatever the whole story ends up being, it is a sad story all around.

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njdiver85 said:

Just wanted to add that a mother sitting on the end and then two much lighter weight kids sitting next to her creates a pretty decent weight imbalance in the chair. Just another potential contributing factor. Add in the fact that the bar was not down, and an unusually strong chair movement due to a fast stoppage. I've seen many cases where the lifty corrects the weight imbalance by asking people to spread out on the chair, but also plenty of times where two people are to the far side of a 4 person chair and the lifty doesn't catch it or ignores it, and the thing is terribly lopsided.

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dlague said:

Should lefties see that and correct it? Or is that not in their duties as assigned?

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Smellytele said:

Why can't righties see it and correct it?

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njdiver85 said:

Just wanted to add that a mother sitting on the end and then two much lighter weight kids sitting next to her creates a pretty decent weight imbalance in the chair. Just another potential contributing factor. Add in the fact that the bar was not down, and an unusually strong chair movement due to a fast stoppage. I've seen many cases where the lifty corrects the weight imbalance by asking people to spread out on the chair, but also plenty of times where two people are to the far side of a 4 person chair and the lifty doesn't catch it or ignores it, and the thing is terribly lopsided.

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deadheadskier said:

There are people who believe that the bar being down prevents them from being able to jump if there is a problem and that jumping would improve the chance of survival or reduce injury instead of falling to the ground inside the chair. At least that's the rationale I've heard people explain behind their choice in riding chairs with the bar up.

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Siliconebobsquarepants said:

I wonder if ski clothes and came into play .What was the weather like at the time? Back in the 80s I had a jacket that was faster than my K2 712's. Ended up sliding through an icy mogul field taking a beating, never wore that jacket again! I don't buy jackets often so I'm not up with current styles but what I wear has decent arresting characteristics .

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