It's so bad you have to pay people to move to Vermont - Page 10

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  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by thetrailboss View Post
    The first bill introduced for the session dealt not with these big issues of demographic challenges but instead on "decriminalizing sex work." Nero continues to play the fiddle while Rome burns.
    I find it absolutely hysterical how grandiose, self-important, completely out-of-touch, and irrational Vermont's house & senate is.

    Instead of focusing on jobs for Vermonters, roads & infrastructure, schools, boosting GDP, and other important state issues, they tend to focus on whatever far-leftist issue of the day is currently being discussed on MSNBC & by liberal blogs, Mother Jones, HuffPo, etc.. Often it's national & global (really) issues they focus on, while Vermont continues to slip into decay. As someone else mentioned though, you get the government you vote for.

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  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by thetrailboss View Post
    I used to think the same, but once I got out and traveled I found a lot of places that have all of these things and lower costs of living and better income and career potential. I'm living in one area now.



    I get this as well, but again, my question was how does paying high taxes contribute to this quality of life? It doesn't in fact. Vermont's infrastructure is in shambles because lawmakers from Chittenden county decided that VTrans should not determine what roads need work and they instead shifted control and money to Chittenden County. Look at Route 2. I won't comment about the complete lack of oversight and accountability by Vermont's government the last 10 years other than to say that there is a lot of conflicts of interest, self-dealing, and complete fraud. The attitude is that just because such deals benefit the "left" it is OK. Well, that doesn't make this kind of behavior acceptable. Need I remind folks about the EB-5 scandal? What sensible investor would ever invest in a Vermont business after that debacle?

    While I agree that some schools are very good, the fact is that most of Vermont's are not doing that "great" compared to the national average, and when considering the amount of money spent. I'm sure you have read the many articles about how schools are closing and consolidating because of costs. And, most disappointing, the State took over education funding in the late 1990's thanks to the Brigham decision in order to provide all kids with the same opportunities. Now more than 20 years later, guess what? The "gold towns" still have great schools while the rest of the towns are struggling. Here is one article on school performance in Vermont by Art Woolf, and before anyone labels him as "far-right", realize that he is Governor Kunin's former Chief Economist for the State back in the 1980's: https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/...ney/525909002/
    So it's great that you have a good gig. Good for you. But I think folks do need to take a critical look at what is going on and what needs to change if Vermont is going to be sustainable. Though Orca's posts are attention-grabbing they do raise a legitimate point to be discussed and not dismissed.
    This is right. I'd love to live in close proximity to Burlington/the NVT mountains, but even if a similar job to the one I have now opens up (there are precious few), I'd have serious concerns about what's going to happen to the state budget over the next ~30 years I plan to work. Taking an adversarial stance towards business while funding a large government (per capita) and generous social programs is a recipe for disaster. Tax rates continuously need to rise to cover costs and the state becomes progressively less competitive with neighboring NH, MA and NY.

    Businesses and private sector laborers are the life blood of the government's income statement. They pay income, property and consumption taxes. Taking an adversarial stance towards business is akin to a supermarket taking an adversarial stance towards customers. Not every business/customer relationship is advantageous, but taking the baseline stance that business is inherently problematic is myopic and foolish. It feels like that sentiment is prevalent in VT.

    Your question wasn't answered as you posed it. Instead, "how do you justify the high taxes in VT?" Was answered. I see this in NJ, too. People say things like "of course taxes are high - I have easy access to NYC". Wrapped up in this is the justification that paying the toll man whatever he wants is just the cost you need to pay. It's a fine justification if it floats your boat, but the blunt answer to your question is "nothing" or "the satisfaction that the government is benevolently throwing money at problems whether it actually solves them (efficiently or at all)". Good on the people that arrive at the decision that VT is for them and it's worth the regulatory burden. To each their own - there's no prescription for everyone.

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  3. #93
    There is opportunity in the Burlington area. Mostly because it’s hard to find people who want to live there. Young people want career mobility. Burlington doesn’t offer that as compared to a larger city.

    The rest of the state is the big problem. Very good jobs are practically nonexistent. I’ve been lucky, but there is nothing here for my children. Health care is about all there is, and once that is nationalized salaries will go down. And hospitals are already on the verge of bankruptcy thanks to insane state regulations. The hospital in Springfield is a canary in the coal mine.

    I love Vermont, but it’s a decaying state. Just look at the demographics.
    Last edited by VTKilarney; Jan 5, 2020 at 8:30 AM.

  4. #94
    MEtoVTSkier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
    I find it absolutely hysterical how grandiose, self-important, completely out-of-touch, and irrational Vermont's house & senate is.

    Instead of focusing on jobs for Vermonters, roads & infrastructure, schools, boosting GDP, and other important state issues, they tend to focus on whatever far-leftist issue of the day is currently being discussed on MSNBC & by liberal blogs, Mother Jones, HuffPo, etc.. Often it's national & global (really) issues they focus on, while Vermont continues to slip into decay. As someone else mentioned though, you get the government you vote for.
    I like the part where they keep Bernie in office. How much does he do for the State of Vermont, instead of being a professional Presidential Candidate for HOW many years? Lol!!! Yep, you get what you vote for!

  5. #95
    My wife and I recently purchased a 2nd home in southern VT (yes, we're part of the problem), and our lawyer pointed out that redeveloping properties has been pretty much choked out by the Land Gains Tax. Considering the additional wear & tear hard winters puts on structures that's one of the reason the housing stock is largely dismal. Thankfully it has been repealed starting in 2020 after roughly 50 years in existence, so that should drive some reinvestment and create more construction jobs.

    Vermont is never going to be competitive for things like manufacturing, with or without changes in government policy. But if they lean into education & connectivity it could be a place that draws remote working professionals that want to be close to the mountains. I'm definitely going to be working from our ski house some days because it doesn't really matter where I am most of the time. I doubt I would move their full time, primarily because my family is down here in NJ, but I'm paying taxes now and every day I spend up there is more money into the local economy.

    https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/...t?oid=25563832

  6. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by thetrailboss View Post
    The first bill introduced for the session dealt not with these big issues of demographic challenges but instead on "decriminalizing sex work." Nero continues to play the fiddle while Rome burns.
    Shit like this is why VT is not even a consideration for our family, even though geographically it would be ideal. I saw California is trying to legalize hookers now too. I'm surprised they don't just draft the bill making it only legal for politicians.

    But I guess "whore justice" is a thing now. Talk about a downward spiral. Good news is the snake ends up eating it's own head.
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  7. #97
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    For a while our retirement home was going to be in either VT or NH. VT is off the list after some research.

    NH is a tax haven for retired folks, VT taxes social security benefits and everything else. Just waiting a few years for the megapass shakeout to occur to see which ski areas are left that are worth living near.

  8. #98
    thetrailboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimG. View Post
    For a while our retirement home was going to be in either VT or NH. VT is off the list after some research.

    NH is a tax haven for retired folks, VT taxes social security benefits and everything else. Just waiting a few years for the megapass shakeout to occur to see which ski areas are left that are worth living near.
    People knock NH but it has some great places and the White Mountains are pretty awesome IMHO. I cut my hiking teeth hiking the Whites as opposed to the Greens because there is so much more awesome stuff to hike and see in the Whites.


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  9. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by thetrailboss View Post
    People knock NH but it has some great places and the White Mountains are pretty awesome IMHO. I cut my hiking teeth hiking the Whites as opposed to the Greens because there is so much more awesome stuff to hike and see in the Whites.


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    The ski areas are generally bigger/better in VT, but the mountains are much bigger in NH. The scenery in NH is superior in my humble and biased opinion, too.

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  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by eastern powder baby View Post
    The ski areas are generally bigger/better in VT, but the mountains are much bigger in NH. The scenery in NH is superior in my humble and biased opinion, too.
    Is the rural NH countryside being destroyed by gigantic, ugly, industrial, wind turbines like it is in VT?
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