What's up with Arc'teryx???

deadheadskier · Aug 28, 2008

funny thing is, I bitch about the price of gear being outrageous, but professionally, I sell stuff that the average joe consumer would drop dead from the prices :lol:

then again, even with what amounts to a 50% discount over what consumers would pay, most of my product I can't afford except for special occasions, so I bitch about it too :lol:

riverc0il · Aug 28, 2008

drjeff said:
That's the thing with Spyder nowadays. Definately an iconic brand in the ski wear industry, but most of the stuff they brand nowadays isn't anywhere close to the quality of the stuff that the made back in the mid 80's through early 90's that got them the reputation of being really good stuff.

Completely agree. Last year I wrote an opinion on my web site about the decrease in Spyder quality of products. My last jacket and glove bought from Spyder turned me completely away from the brand. I had stitching ripping out in less than two months use amongst other issues.

As far as Arcteryx, they are astronomically over priced. Even when the stuff is on sale it is above my threshold for buying high quality goods (and I generally will go for quality even if it means paying a little but more despite my low cost approach to things). The car analogy doesn't really hold weight when comparing Arcteryx to an Audi. Audi's are certainly expensive but Joe middle class can still afford an Audi if he really wanted to. I would put Arcteryx into the Lamborghini class with the car analogy and put other higher quality vendors such as Marmot etc. in the Audi category. Spyder and Marker in the full size sedan category with department store no names rounding out the economy devision. For a non-alpinist skier, there is no way Arcteryx is worth the extra cost unless you have a lot of extra money to burn. I am an earn your turns type and I am fine with the quality of most mid-level gear (though I do splurge on Patagonia when it is on sale for base layers).

Hawkshot99 · Aug 28, 2008

The shop I work at is going to start carrying North Face jackets this year. They are one of the companies that has many levels of gear. This is the main reason we have not carried them or similar companies. Customer comes in and sees we carry a North Face jacket that costs $XXX.They look at it and remember how they saw North Face at Dicks or some other box store, for a whole lot less. The difference is that they are completly different quality, but not something that you can really tell just by looking if you are just a regular consumer. But they buy it and think how over priced the ski shop is.

GrilledSteezeSandwich · Aug 29, 2008

Hawkshot99 said:
The shop I work at is going to start carrying North Face jackets this year. They are one of the companies that has many levels of gear. This is the main reason we have not carried them or similar companies. Customer comes in and sees we carry a North Face jacket that costs $XXX.They look at it and remember how they saw North Face at Dicks or some other box store, for a whole lot less. The difference is that they are completly different quality, but not something that you can really tell just by looking if you are just a regular consumer. But they buy it and think how over priced the ski shop is.

Dicks is great..I forgot about them but they have really good prices on NorthFace..and I bought some ski socks there for $5 less per pair than Nestors across the street..

Trekchick · Aug 29, 2008

severine said:
I believe quite a few of the Ski Divas are huge fans. But all I know is they tend to size small and theirs is supposed to be high quality stuff. What that translates to exactly I don't know... I don't spend big bucks like that on ski clothes. My last ski jacket was around $100 on clearance (North Face) and my softshell was under $40 from SAC.

I'm not fond of Arc'teryx. The few things I've tried have been ill fitting. I love my Killtec Jacket, and Isis pants

deadheadskier · Aug 29, 2008

Just picked up some Columbia titanium pants for $73.40 :grin: We'll see how they work out and whether or not I should've dropped $300-$400 on Arc'teryx

GrilledSteezeSandwich · Aug 29, 2008

deadheadskier said:
Just picked up some Columbia titanium pants for $73.40 :grin: We'll see how they work out and whether or not I should've dropped $300-$400 on Arc'teryx

I'm on my second pair of Ride Snowboard pants and they're fine unless it's pouring rain...cargo pockets are key for snowpants in case I'm not wearing a jacket or fanny pack..to keep my wallet, keys, steeze and cheeze.

My pants were $70 down from $120

Shroud · Aug 29, 2008

I own more than a few pieces of Arc'teryx gear and have never regretted the money I spent on any of it. I can't say that about many companies and it isn't hyperbole. The gear is expensive and no one denies that. There is simply something special about the design and look of Arc'teryx gear that combined with the performance characteristics of the gear they make equates to money well spent at the end of the day.

Having said that, I've also never regretted the money I've spent on gear made by Marmot or Mountain Hardwear though. I've also owned (or still own) plenty of great pieces of gear by The North Face, Columbia and tons of other companies right down the line.

The simplest analogy other than the car one is to look at how some people judge a $20 bottle of wine vs a $100 bottle of wine. Some people will never understand why someone else would pay $100 for one bottle when they could buy 5 bottles of a $20 wine instead. They'll both get you drunk though.

Arc'teryx is no longer 100% Canadian manufacture however. Plenty of Arc'teryx manufacturing has been moved to China in recent years.

deadheadskier · Aug 29, 2008

Shroud.....as someone who developed wine lists for numerous restaurants, I somewhat disagree with that analogy. Once you get up over say $16-$20 a bottle wholesale, the returns diminish rapidly in terms of quality and in many cases are indistinguishable. Wine makers and merchants will charge $100+++, heck $500++++ for a bottle of wine NOT because the quality is THAT much better than a $40 bottle, but because people are dumb enough to pay it and often times shell out that kind of cash for personal 'prestige'. Take a look Vodka, Smirnoff wins more taste contests than any other brand out there, yet it costs less than half of what you'd pay for a bottle of Grey Goose and the production costs are nearly identical.

I'm certainly not discrediting the quality of Arc'teryx, I'm sure it's great stuff, but the cost to produce it I don't think is inline with their prices compared to more value oriented brands. They charge what they do because people will pay it. Such is the way of the free market capitalist society....not a bad thing, it just is what it is.

BigJay · Aug 29, 2008

deadheadskier said:
I'm certainly not discrediting the quality of Arc'teryx, I'm sure it's great stuff, but the cost to produce it I don't think is inline with their prices compared to more value oriented brands. They charge what they do because people will pay it. Such is the way of the free market capitalist society....not a bad thing, it just is what it is.

Well... You're a bit off there... Volume of sales come into play...

Switch sport and look into bike... No one will out-value Giant as far as components go in the all the spectre of the market... It's pretty simple, Giant owns many manufacture in China and Taiwan that produces bikes for Specialized, Trek and many others... So for sure, their cost is lower then those of it's competitors... but then factor in risks and technologies involved...

So as a general rule, if you take 3 bikes from the same pricepoint, Giant will be a bit cheaper and will have a slightly better derailler... slightly better tires and such... while being a few hundred less...

ArcTeryx will never have the same volume as TNF or Columbia... and then again, you're not looking at the same market... TNF and Columbia aim at the masses while ArcTeryx aims at niche market and specialized retailing... You won't see them at the local do-it-all shop at the shopping mart... They want core shop or outdoor store... Pretty normal if you want your "brand value" to stay high up there... If you sell out by going to branch-stores then you'll loose most of the first people who helped you sell your first jackets and got the brand started...

deadheadskier · Aug 29, 2008

BigJay said:
... Pretty normal if you want your "brand value" to stay high up there... If you sell out by going to branch-stores then you'll loose most of the first people who helped you sell your first jackets and got the brand started...

like I said in different terms, you're paying for 'prestige' in a sense. Depending on where a product is sold will affect it's prestige. That's the way the human psych works. If Acr'teryx puts their product in Dicks, it's still just as good of quality as the one on a shelf in a small retailer, but isn't perceived to be as good. Kind of silly if you think about it. However, the model does allow for the little guys to exist next to the big guys, which is a good thing. Of course most little guys eventually get greedy and want to become a big guy. From the sounds of Arc'teryx is doing just that. Maybe I'll get to check them out someday when they become cheaper and are on the shelves of Dicks :lol:

Hawkshot99 · Aug 29, 2008

deadheadskier said:
If Acr'teryx puts their product in Dicks, it's still just as good of quality as the one on a shelf in a small retailer, but isn't perceived to be as good.

No the stuff you see at Dicks is not the same you see at a specialty shop. It has the same name, but that is it. The companies create different levels of gear, and sell the cheaper lower quality at the box stores.

I dont look at the clothing at my local dicks, but have looked at the snowboards. My local Dicks carries Burton boards as well as some other brands. Not one of the Burton brand boards they carry are in the Burton dealer catalogs I get.

Same with the Giro Helmets they sell.

Mildcat · Aug 29, 2008

deadheadskier said:
Just picked up some Columbia titanium pants for $73.40 :grin: We'll see how they work out and whether or not I should've dropped $300-$400 on Arc'teryx

I picked up a pair of those at TJ Maxx's sale last year, I think I paid $30 or $35 for them. After a couple of uses I noticed tears on one of the legs and couldn't figure out how they got there. They still worked well and were well worth the $ I spent on them but it kind of turned me off of Columbia. Between the pants and a Columbia jacket I have I don't think I'll buy that brand again.

deadheadskier · Aug 29, 2008

Hawkshot99 said:
No the stuff you see at Dicks is not the same you see at a specialty shop. It has the same name, but that is it. The companies create different levels of gear, and sell the cheaper lower quality at the box stores.

I dont look at the clothing at my local dicks, but have looked at the snowboards. My local Dicks carries Burton boards as well as some other brands. Not one of the Burton brand boards they carry are in the Burton dealer catalogs I get.

Same with the Giro Helmets they sell.

I'm speaking more in theory than in literal terms. You take two Jacket A's, put one in Dick's and one in a specialty shop and the one in Dick's will be perceived as lesser quality even if it's not. I was addressing 'brand value'

deadheadskier · Aug 29, 2008

Mildcat said:
I picked up a pair of those at TJ Maxx's sale last year, I think I paid $30 or $35 for them. After a couple of uses I noticed tears on one of the legs and couldn't figure out how they got there. They still worked well and were well worth the $ I spent on them but it kind of turned me off of Columbia. Between the pants and a Columbia jacket I have I don't think I'll buy that brand again.

hopefully I have better luck. My Columbia Jacket is going on it's fifth season, I paid $120 for it and I've never once wished I had a more waterproof or warmer (provided I layered properly) jacket.

were the tears on the inside of the legs? I've had that problem with numerous pants, but it's from the edges of my skis.

Hawkshot99 · Aug 29, 2008

deadheadskier said:
I'm speaking more in theory than in literal terms. You take two Jacket A's, put one in Dick's and one in a specialty shop and the one in Dick's will be perceived as lesser quality even if it's not. I was addressing 'brand value'

If it was just theory i would agree with you, but there is a reason that the theory exists.

Mildcat · Aug 30, 2008

deadheadskier said:
hopefully I have better luck. My Columbia Jacket is going on it's fifth season, I paid $120 for it and I've never once wished I had a more waterproof or warmer (provided I layered properly) jacket.

were the tears on the inside of the legs? I've had that problem with numerous pants, but it's from the edges of my skis.

The tears were on the inside of the legs and they probably were from the edge of the skis but I didn't have a huge wipeout and it seemed to happen too easily. I had the jacket four years and liked it but when I bought a better one I realized what I was missing. I still use the shell for spring skiing but I want to get a soft shell for that eventually.

That being said I skied over 50 days with those pants and hope to get a lot more with them this winter.Those pants don't owe me a dime.

Hawkshot99 · Aug 30, 2008

Mildcat said:
The tears were on the inside of the legs and they probably were from the edge of the skis but I didn't have a huge wipeout and it seemed to happen too easily.

Are they for skiers or boarders? Ski pants will have a extra layer of a stronger material on the inner leg to protect the pants from the other foots ski edge. Board pants do not have these.

Mildcat · Aug 30, 2008

Hawkshot99 said:
Are they for skiers or boarders? Ski pants will have a extra layer of a stronger material on the inner leg to protect the pants from the other foots ski edge. Board pants do not have these.

You know I never thought of that. :dunce: They are snowboard pants.

Shroud · Aug 30, 2008

deadheadskier said:
Shroud.....as someone who developed wine lists for numerous restaurants, I somewhat disagree with that analogy. Once you get up over say $16-$20 a bottle wholesale, the returns diminish rapidly in terms of quality and in many cases are indistinguishable. Wine makers and merchants will charge $100+++, heck $500++++ for a bottle of wine NOT because the quality is THAT much better than a $40 bottle, but because people are dumb enough to pay it and often times shell out that kind of cash for personal 'prestige'. Take a look Vodka, Smirnoff wins more taste contests than any other brand out there, yet it costs less than half of what you'd pay for a bottle of Grey Goose and the production costs are nearly identical.

I'm certainly not discrediting the quality of Arc'teryx, I'm sure it's great stuff, but the cost to produce it I don't think is inline with their prices compared to more value oriented brands. They charge what they do because people will pay it. Such is the way of the free market capitalist society....not a bad thing, it just is what it is.

Well as someone who develops wine lists for restaurants, I would think you'd be willing to at least agree that certain expensive wines do taste ALOT better than the majority of inexpensive wines out there. Some people will never be able to wrap their heads around why anyone would ever spend $100 on a bottle of wine and the same thing certainly occurs when people see that some hardshells made by Arc'teryx and Mountain Hardwear retail for $500+. It's so far outside their comfort zone when it comes to the price of a jacket that anything you say about how great the jacket is will never break down the wall they have to that shopping in that price range.

This is definitely the time of year to be on the lookout for deals though whether it be via SAC, REI annual sales, Backcountry, Sierra or wherever.

What's up with Arc'teryx???

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