The "Sugarbush Thread"

benski said:

Good point. Just they are not close to the easiest way to get to CastleRock. A route up coffee run-lower jester would make ceslerock much more accessible.

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Patrol was allowing those going to Castlerock to go up Gondolier/Lower Jester. They didn't want people hiking up the runout as that route is a narrow trail and is the primary way down to the base from CR. Best not to have a few hundred hiking up (and all those footprints) while some are trying to make their way down.

The designated hiking route of Racer's Edge->Snowball->VHT is the "after hours" morning route, so as to not interfere with grooming operations and the routes of other mountain vehicles. Easy Rider->Pushover is the designated route in the evening hours. Designated routes kind of went out the window yesterday, as going up the mountain I saw many hiking up Sleeper, Hot Shot, Sugarbear Road, etc. And it became quite obvious that some of those people have never hiked up a mountain to earn their turns before. For those that did earn their turns, kudos to you!

Crazy deep powder on Bravo and Exterminator and upper mountain woods today...but lots of wind scoured trails too.

WWF-VT said:

Crazy deep powder on Bravo and Exterminator and upper mountain woods today...but lots of wind scoured trails too.

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A lot of that the whole weekend too. Temperature swings made stuff get sticky and then icy but overall there were some of the best conditions all season in some spots. Assuming this next stretch of warm weather doesnt bring too much rain, things should continue to be awesome.

I'm going up for a week march 11, hopefully things don't turn to shit by then


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Not to double post, but what do you all think SB's response to Vail moving in just up the road will be?

Well I'll just copy/paste what I wrote in the Vail thread :-D

I think potential crowds you could see at Stowe with the Epic pass potential price-point would be a very strong selling point for other areas like Sugarbush. Maybe the first year people jump ship to Stowe, but after dealing with crowds I could see some people come back to SB. My prediction is SB either keeps pricing flat or reduces it slightly (maybe ~$50-100). People often point to SB as being one of the pricier places, yet at the same time SB also offers a tremendous amount of pass options now where the age range that is paying full price keeps getting narrower and narrower.

Overall I think it will have a limited effect on Sugarbush pricing. FWIW Sugarbush has a high percentage of season passholders that have condos/second homes in the MRV and they aren’t going anywhere. That includes lots of families that take advantage of the “kids under 12 ski free with an adult pass purchase” that buy their passes in the spring at the lowest price point. There are also many locals that buy Mt Ellen only passes that would never consider an Epic pass at Stowe. Like cdskier said there are already a lot pf price points for Sugarbush passes.

If Vail does drop a cheap Epic pass at Stowe they’ll likely jack up the already high day ticket price as Vail does not have Stowe’s real estate assets to make money. Lowering the cost of the pass, further crowding the slopes and increasing the traffic getting in and out of Stowe is a potential benefit to Sugarbush.

WWF-VT said:

Overall I think it will have a limited effect on Sugarbush pricing. FWIW Sugarbush has a high percentage of season passholders that have condos/second homes in the MRV and they aren’t going anywhere. That includes lots of families that take advantage of the “kids under 12 ski free with an adult pass purchase” that buy their passes in the spring at the lowest price point. There are also many locals that buy Mt Ellen only passes that would never consider an Epic pass at Stowe. Like cdskier said there are already a lot pf price points for Sugarbush passes.

If Vail does drop a cheap Epic pass at Stowe they’ll likely jack up the already high day ticket price as Vail does not have Stowe’s real estate assets to make money. Lowering the cost of the pass, further crowding the slopes and increasing the traffic getting in and out of Stowe is a potential benefit to Sugarbush.

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I made a comment on Vail to buy stowe already, but wanted to respond to your post. My family of Four have been season pass holders at SB for the past several seasons. We also have a seasonal rental at SB. I have two boys that are turning 13 next year. My season pass cost is going to increase over $700 next season. The vail/stowe merger has me thinking.

nhskier1969 said:

I made a comment on Vail to buy stowe already, but wanted to respond to your post. My family of Four have been season pass holders at SB for the past several seasons. We also have a seasonal rental at SB. I have two boys that are turning 13 next year. My season pass cost is going to increase over $700 next season. The vail/stowe merger has me thinking.

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Curious why $700? Wasn't the Youth pass at SB $219 last year at the early rate?

nhskier1969 said:

I made a comment on Vail to buy stowe already, but wanted to respond to your post. My family of Four have been season pass holders at SB for the past several seasons. We also have a seasonal rental at SB. I have two boys that are turning 13 next year. My season pass cost is going to increase over $700 next season. The vail/stowe merger has me thinking.

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My guess is that an Epic youth pass is going to be in the same price range as an All Mountain 7 Youth Pass. I have no idea what your seasonal rental situation is, but when we looked years ago the Stowe area was more $$ for seasonal rentals compared to the MRV.

cdskier said:

Curious why $700? Wasn't the Youth pass at SB $219 last year at the early rate?

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I believe it was $359 and I have two kids

nhskier1969 said:

I believe it was $359 and I have two kids

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Maybe that was the 2nd deadline price then. The earliest price was $219 (http://web.archive.org/web/20160315064540/http://www.sugarbush.com/season-passes/all-mountain-7).

Epic Youth pass was $399 at the early rate from what I was able to find.

So my math comes up with (based on last year's pricing for SB vs Epic):
Sugarbush - $2736 (1149x2 + 219x2)
Epic - $2416 (809x2 + 399x2)

So yes, Epic would be cheaper for the passes itself and you get the added benefit of being able to use it out west. The flip side though as WWF said is what is the rental cost differential (assuming you still do a seasonal rental). And then for the potential trips out west you need to factor in lodging and airfare. For a family of 4 that could add up quickly. If you didn't plan to go out west, then you're looking at roughly a $300 difference on passes.

*Note, I'm not trying to push you to stick with SB, just trying to think through the costs out loud beyond just the season pass difference. Having the option to ski out west is definitely a nice benefit if you can take advantage of it.

**Edit - Maybe the $219 price was a typo or changed really quickly as I happened to look at a version of that page from April with the pricing and it was up to $349 (http://web.archive.org/web/20160415124357/http://www.sugarbush.com/season-passes/all-mountain-7) ...now you're right that the SB price would be $700 higher for your situation. So overall Epic would be $580 cheaper than SB for the 4 passes alone.

**Edit 2 - Of course this is all based on last year's numbers. Epic has gone up slightly every year recently and we still don't know how SB will react with pricing. So these numbers could swing either way depending on what ends up being announced.

The "Sugarbush Thread"

WWF-VT said:

Overall I think it will have a limited effect on Sugarbush pricing. FWIW Sugarbush has a high percentage of season passholders that have condos/second homes in the MRV and they aren’t going anywhere. That includes lots of families that take advantage of the “kids under 12 ski free with an adult pass purchase” that buy their passes in the spring at the lowest price point. There are also many locals that buy Mt Ellen only passes that would never consider an Epic pass at Stowe. Like cdskier said there are already a lot pf price points for Sugarbush passes.

If Vail does drop a cheap Epic pass at Stowe they’ll likely jack up the already high day ticket price as Vail does not have Stowe’s real estate assets to make money. Lowering the cost of the pass, further crowding the slopes and increasing the traffic getting in and out of Stowe is a potential benefit to Sugarbush.

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Have you looked at any of Vail's day rates? They're absurdly high. Epic Pass is what they want you to buy. A lot will have a hard time turning that down.

Agree that SB has a sizable captive audience, but a lot of locals could jump for Epic next year. We'll see.

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nhskier1969 said:

I believe it was $359 and I have two kids

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$359 is the early rate for the 19-29 pass at SB. Should be cheaper than that for the youth pass I imagine.

Weather looks sketchy this weekend, but it just worked out to be the best time to go with some friends. So I am gonna go, despite the rain on Saturday. Friday and Sunday look decent enough to make it worthwhile, plus I already have 20+ days in this season so it will be fun either way. Anyways, you guys have any tips for the best trails to ride during a rain day? Thinking Mt Ellen is the better bet in general since the groomers there should hold up and the lift rides on GMX and North Ridge are quick (sitting on a lift in the rain is the worst part).

Josh Fox says the ski day Saturday might be relatively dry...

Though we will see some more light rain or drizzle with impaired visibility Friday, most of the rain will come in one relatively well defined period after the ski day on Saturday. This means that the actual ski day will feature some pretty decent weather, especially if you like it very warm. The lower part of the troposphere is actually expected to mix out which will allow for some sunshine, very mild breezes and excessive temperatures for the season. Forecasts show readings in the low 50's, if you are watching your smart phone but with a little sun and a little wind, readings could approach 60 at the base. Needless to say, it will be an excellent spring skiing kind of day. The rain then arrives late in the evening and may fall somewhat heavily for a short time before colder air returns for Sunday.

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Sunday could be absolute crap though. Warm Saturday followed by rain Saturday evening followed by temps dropping below freezing late Saturday night will result in a Sunday that will require ice skates. Depending on when the temps drop, it may be difficult for them to groom much as well.

cdskier said:

Josh Fox says the ski day Saturday might be relatively dry...



Sunday could be absolute crap though. Warm Saturday followed by rain Saturday evening followed by temps dropping below freezing late Saturday night will result in a Sunday that will require ice skates. Depending on when the temps drop, it may be difficult for them to groom much as well.

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Yeah... have plans to go skiing with a little nephew (10) on Sunday. He's good for a non-racing 10 year old, but it might not be the best day... Saturday is not an option.

cdskier said:

Josh Fox says the ski day Saturday might be relatively dry...



Sunday could be absolute crap though. Warm Saturday followed by rain Saturday evening followed by temps dropping below freezing late Saturday night will result in a Sunday that will require ice skates. Depending on when the temps drop, it may be difficult for them to groom much as well.

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That would be excellent really if the rain holds off until later on. I'll make sure to get in two good days of skiing and maybe just skip the last day. Could be nice to get home early anyways!

thetrailboss said:

Have you looked at any of Vail's day rates? They're absurdly high. Epic Pass is what they want you to buy.

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Not for nothing but Stowe's day rates are absurdly high as well. Two peas and such!



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prsboogie said:

Not for nothing but Stowe's day rates are absurdly high as well. Two peas and such!



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Yep. For two different reasons. Vail's is they want you to be an Epic passholder. Stowe's is because they want less people.


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