$1M for Mittersill "improvement project"

[Puck it]

Is that crap for real? Cannon really knows how to ruin a good thing

Goodbye, old t-bar line. No more popping off the tree islands on Baron's.

 

[MadMadWorld]

Goodbye, old t-bar line. No more popping off the tree islands on Baron's.

That's terrible. There goes the neighborhood!

 

[deadheadskier]

Sucks to lose Barons as it was and I'm sure a big portion of Mittersill I haven't skied that has been in a "side country state" up until this proposed development. I'm sure the one net positive of destroying those experiences is that the Cannon Beavers will get busy in the woods elsewhere and prune stashes that don't exist today.

 

[Smellytele]

Here is the issue, many, myself included as a skier, are not willing to pay more taxes for a ski area. The percentage of people who actually ski, verses those who would be supporting the ski area makes this a non starter.

Well as noted that without Cannon (if sold off) then more money would be needed to support the other state parks - increasing the tax burden. Yes I know the talk is to lease it. Also you live in ME so you have no say.

 

[MadMadWorld]

Here is the issue, many, myself included as a skier, are not willing to pay more taxes for a ski area. The percentage of people who actually ski, verses those who would be supporting the ski area makes this a non starter.

The same argument is made for stadiums and other things. Ultimately, the only choice we have is in who we vote into public office that makes these decisions

 

[Smellytele]

Hey!!!! I lived in NH for 9 years, doesn't that count for something?

How is Canon supposed to support the other state parks if it always in the red? Or is it this support that puts it in the red?

This was from someones post earlier:
A more or less unbiased report on Cannon alleged deficit. http://www.unionleader.com/article/2...WS06/130509574

A quote from that article: She (State Treasurer Catherine Provencher) points out that Cannon actually operates at a profit but that revenues from Cannon go to support other parks that do not generate revenue. "Our parks fund was intended to be self-supporting, so I have to say Cannon and the Hampton meters pay for an awful lot of our system of parks that we can all enjoy," she said

 

[deadheadskier]

Here is the issue, many, myself included as a skier, are not willing to pay more taxes for a ski area. The percentage of people who actually ski, verses those who would be supporting the ski area makes this a non starter.

That's fine, but do realize part of the taxes you pay in Maine goes towards operating parks that are enjoyed by very few people and lose money. It's all part of the greater good in providing recreational opportunities for people at a more reasonable cost than they will find pursuing those opportunities at privately held for profit venues.

Part of my tax dollars went towards a $14M revitalization of Hampton Beach. I've lived 15 minutes down the road from there for 6 years and have only been a couple of times to enjoy the improvements. It's just not a place I really dig, but appreciate that many other people do. I pay extra for State Park license plates for my car and probably don't realize a financial savings in doing so because I don't visit the parks often enough to justify the added cost of the plates that gets me "free" admittance. I buy them more because I know the extra money goes towards the upkeep and operation of the parks and there's value in that for the people of and visitors to this state.

Cannon could lose $1.3M a year and I wouldn't care. That's a buck a person. Residents lose far more on other frivolous expenditures by the state. At least money lost at Cannon provides a more affordable skiing experience than if it were privately run.

That's the way I see it anyways.

 

[Puck it]

That's fine, but do realize part of the taxes you pay in Maine goes towards operating parks that are enjoyed by very few people and lose money. It's all part of the greater good in providing recreational opportunities for people at a more reasonable cost than they will find pursuing those opportunities at privately held for profit venues.


I was/am not aware of that. I am a firm believer that each issue should stand on it's own merits. I also feel every issue should be self supporting as much as possible, although, like schools, some can not be.

And your tax dollars pay for a lot of other crap that should stand on it own or should I say pay their own way.

 

[deadheadskier]

I was/am not aware of that. I am a firm believer that each issue should stand on it's own merits. I also feel every issue should be self supporting as much as possible, although, like schools, some can not be.

State Parks are by and large a money drain from the general fund in every state. NH is the only exceptions to that where the parks are fully funded by usage fees. For all the critics of Cannon and NH state parks financials, we do it better than any other state in the country.

 

[Cannonball]

I was/am not aware of that. I am a firm believer that each issue should stand on it's own merits. I also feel every issue should be self supporting as much as possible, although, like schools, some can not be.

You were not aware that your taxes fund parks in your state? For someone who has a strong opinion about taxes increases and how their taxes should be spent, you might want to consider looking into at least the very basics of your state's operations.

 

[dlague]

State Parks are by and large a money drain from the general fund in every state. NH is the only exceptions to that where the parks are fully funded by usage fees. For all the critics of Cannon and NH state parks financials, we do it better than any other state in the country.

Very true - many see the state paying for everything for NH Sate Parks which includes Cannon but the State parks system here is very self funded. Are there funds needed out of the Capital Budget for projects like Hampton Beach - yes. As deadheadskier mentions we do not use all of the resources - I for one do not visit Hampton Beach nor do I hike much in our state parks but I will be skiing Cannon due to the good deal extended to NH residents. I am not going to go crazy over where money is being spent on projects I am not interested in since there are others I like so in the end the projects overall cover a broader spectrum of people none of whom will use 100% of them.

 

[thetrailboss]

Getting away again from the debate as to Cannon's status as a publicly owned ski area.....

Anyone up in the North Country been to Cannon and seen if any activity is going on at Mittersill?

 

[Newpylong]

State Parks are by and large a money drain from the general fund in every state. NH is the only exceptions to that where the parks are fully funded by usage fees. For all the critics of Cannon and NH state parks financials, we do it better than

any other state in the country.

Off topic rant:

I love this state because everything is as self sufficient as possible. Most of my taxes go towards local infrastructure, schools and roads, and that's pretty fair I think. If there are a few things that are subsidized like parks and ski areas, so be it. I could live in western MA and be paying so people in Boston can ride the T. Somewhere there has to be a balance.

As for Maine, look at all the money they are blowing on rail (and I am HUGE pro rail). Portland to Boston was a no-brainer - it's sold out constantly. Portland to Brunswick is pushing it. Now they are looking at extending to Augusta and possible going up the other way to Auburn/Lewiston. The state already spent millions rebuilding 20 miles of the Mountain Division past Westbrook and the customers never showed up. They are also looking at "Commuter Rail" between Lewiston/Auburn and Portland. Seriously? Burlington, VT tried that and it bombed. Traffic isn't bad enough and there aren't enough people. These are all multi-million dollars projects and maintenance that a small fraction will use.

So yeah - we have it pretty damn good here. That's why we have all the nut job Free Staters.

/end rant

 

[SIKSKIER]

Getting away again from the debate as to Cannon's status as a publicly owned ski area.....

Anyone up in the North Country been to Cannon and seen if any activity is going on at Mittersill?

I'll be going to my house at Mittersill but not till Memorial Day weekend.I will report back.

 

[dlague]

I'll be going to my house at Mittersill but not till Memorial Day weekend.I will report back.

Do you mean Labor Day? I think Memorial day is too far away, plus I would hate to see you miss the 2014-2015 ski season at Cannon with a place right there!

 

[VTKilarney]

One clarification regarding taxes. Tax dollars spent on Cannon have an impact that is greater than the income received from the mountain itself. The people who ski at Cannon also pay taxes at hotels, gas stations, restaurants, etc. So the real question is whether or not the TOTAL revenues generated by Cannon (whether on-site or off-site) are greater than the total expenditure.

As far as off-site revenues are concerned, you would have eliminate tax revenues from money that would have been spent in NH even if Cannon did not exist. For example, if a family would have spent the same amount of money at restaurants and hotels while skiing Loon if Cannon was closed, those tax revenues should be excluded. I'm certainly not smart enough to figure out that calculation.

 

[VTKilarney]

Do you mean Labor Day? I think Memorial day is too far away, plus I would hate to see miss the 2014-2015 ski season at Cannon with a place right there!

10 month party at Sikskiers' house!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BYOB!!!!!!!

 

[Abubob]

One clarification regarding taxes. Tax dollars spent on Cannon have an impact that is greater than the income received from the mountain itself. The people who ski at Cannon also pay taxes at hotels, gas stations, restaurants, etc. So the real question is whether or not the TOTAL revenues generated by Cannon (whether on-site or off-site) are greater than the total expenditure.

As far as off-site revenues are concerned, you would have eliminate tax revenues from money that would have been spent in NH even if Cannon did not exist. For example, if a family would have spent the same amount of money at restaurants and hotels while skiing Loon if Cannon was closed, those tax revenues should be excluded. I'm certainly not smart enough to figure out that calculation.

I would think that would be impossible to quantify especially seeing as there are nearly no services as near to Cannon as there are to other areas. I don't even know what the closest gas station or restaurant there is south of Cannon other than what you would find in Franconia and I can't even think of much there. Lincoln/Woodstock is the closest and anyone that uses those services could much more easily ski at Loon. So I just don't see how it would be possible calculate outside taxes generated by each ski area.

 

[Puck it]

I would think that would be impossible to quantify especially seeing as there are nearly no services as near to Cannon as there are to other areas. I don't even know what the closest gas station or restaurant there is south of Cannon other than what you would find in Franconia and I can't even think of much there. Lincoln/Woodstock is the closest and anyone that uses those services could much more easily ski at Loon. So I just don't see how it would be possible calculate outside taxes generated by each ski area.

Gas and lodging in North Lincoln.

 

[thetrailboss]

I would think that would be impossible to quantify especially seeing as there are nearly no services as near to Cannon as there are to other areas. I don't even know what the closest gas station or restaurant there is south of Cannon other than what you would find in Franconia and I can't even think of much there. Lincoln/Woodstock is the closest and anyone that uses those services could much more easily ski at Loon. So I just don't see how it would be possible calculate outside taxes generated by each ski area.

Add Littleton, Bethlehem, Franconia, and Sugar Hill to the list of towns.....