200+ guns running @stratton, does anyone in New England run more?

[ColdRain&Snow]

Is it unreasonable in the epic/ikon environment to expect more, and earlier?

I used to wait until after new years to really start committing weekend time/$ into skiing because the conditions varied so much early on it didn’t seem worth it to us.

Now it seems like quite a few of these places can get a lot of good coverage quickly when they want to (and temps cooperate).

I watch the Stratton webcams and the snow bowl, mid mountain and base don’t show much, but the summit looks pretty good.. Curious to see what they open initially.

 

[snoseek]

I would gladly trade November skiing for an extra week or two in the spring

 

[Hawk]

No I wouldn't expect more. Mountains usually do the best they can with the equipement, budget and weather they have. There is plenty of skiing to be had right now.

 

[cdskier]

Is it unreasonable in the epic/ikon environment to expect more, and earlier?

I used to wait until after new years to really start committing weekend time/$ into skiing because the conditions varied so much early on it didn’t seem worth it to us.

Now it seems like quite a few of these places can get a lot of good coverage quickly when they want to (and temps cooperate).

I watch the Stratton webcams and the snow bowl, mid mountain and base don’t show much, but the summit looks pretty good.. Curious to see what they open initially.

Can you clarify what you mean by "more" and "earlier"? It doesn't matter how many guns you can run simultaneously if the weather doesn't cooperate. So "earlier" is limited to a degree by that.

Not sure what "more" you are looking for either. That almost is the opposite of earlier. If you want "more" terrain at opening, then you'd need to allow the mountains more time to make snow before opening.

Do I think there are some areas that need to substantially increase their snow-making infrastructure? (especially to be able to take advantage of shorter duration of cold events in the early season). Yes. But that's not something that can be addressed overnight.

 

[drjeff]

Is it unreasonable in the epic/ikon environment to expect more, and earlier?

I used to wait until after new years to really start committing weekend time/$ into skiing because the conditions varied so much early on it didn’t seem worth it to us.

Now it seems like quite a few of these places can get a lot of good coverage quickly when they want to (and temps cooperate).

I watch the Stratton webcams and the snow bowl, mid mountain and base don’t show much, but the summit looks pretty good.. Curious to see what they open initially.

Stratton typically will focus the bulk of their "opening rollout" on their upper mountain pods (URSA and Snowbowl) where it often is a few degrees cooler, which this time of year can be the difference between getting a run open and multiple runs open in a pod, (the URSA pod also gets the Stratton Mountain School athletes on their home terrain sooner as well) and then have a connector, or maybe 2 to the base for the 1st week or 2 depending on the weather. Ultimately at the end of the day, it's still about getting enough hours with a wetbulb temp below say 28 degrees to get enough product down to connect the whales to allow that trail to open

The thing to remember with snowmaking systems, is that while automation (either fully or partial) is becoming more of the norm for many resorts now on atleast some of their terrain, is that it's still a labor intensive operation, and most snowmakers are a "different breed" than the rest of us, and that's a great thing, as the snowmakers I know are some really neat people, some just don't want to talk to others as much as others do, who take a great amount of pride in their work, and especially for folks who have been doing it for many years, that old saying "it just gets in your blood" seems true

 

[KustyTheKlown]

guns going on both ursa and snowbowl right now, and frank's. good stuff

 

[drjeff]

guns going on both ursa and snowbowl right now, and frank's. good stuff

Can't get enough quality snowmaking porn this time of year for sure!

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

Can you clarify what you mean by "more" and "earlier"? It doesn't matter how many guns you can run simultaneously if the weather doesn't cooperate. So "earlier" is limited to a degree by that.

Not sure what "more" you are looking for either. That almost is the opposite of earlier. If you want "more" terrain at opening, then you'd need to allow the mountains more time to make snow before opening.

Do I think there are some areas that need to substantially increase their snow-making infrastructure? (especially to be able to take advantage of shorter duration of cold events in the early season). Yes. But that's not something that can be addressed overnight.

I guess I wonder how often they run at their capacities, and there are certainly logistical challenges with staffing and equipment.

So, for example, is Sunday River doing this? Can they reasonably ever do this?

I know for a fact that Sunday River had enough guns and hoses to set up one at every hydrant on all trails when I was there. I would bet that is still the case.

 

[Newpylong]

Yes, the upper limit is not static in real world practice. Weather, snowmaking location(s), available equipment, and staff all come into play. For example, if they aren't wanting to make snow in enough areas with adequate feed capacity, then they won't be running the system flat out. Also, early season you're on the "air" side of the curve where air is in demand more than water. As it gets colder this flips.

For a system that is capable of say moving 10,000 gallons per minute of water and has 40,000 CFM of air compression (industry standard is 4:1 air to water ratio in system design):

Rough example:

Wet bulb of 24 degrees in November they'll only be able to move 4,000 GPM of water but they'll be utilizing all 40,000 CFM of air.
Wet bub of 10 degrees in January and this will flip and they will be able to use all of their water and much less air.

Hope this helps

 

[cdskier]

I guess I wonder how often they run at their capacities, and there are certainly logistical challenges with staffing and equipment.

I think newpy answered this pretty well. There's just so many factors here. Just because you can pump "x" GPM/CFM overall doesn't mean you can pump those full amounts all to the area you need to make snow at the moment. I'd say generally areas are not intentionally running below capacity without a legitimate reason.

 

[Yo VT Raps]

This would be a good spot for one of the Snowflex reps to make their case. I predict a year-round terrain park at one of the major VT resorts within the decade.

 

[ss20]

Seven Springs can push upwards of 30,000gpm.

I work with a guy who got his start there. Said it was something to see! I've been told they can cover every trail at once under ideal conditions, not sure if that's hyperbole but still crazy.

 

[ss20]

I'm wondering now who has the best gallons per minute pump capacity per acre ratio. I'm thinking WaWa or Jiminy Peak? Probably a small place in PA I'd assume too.

 

[thebigo]

Absurd number of guns running at SR today, off the top of my head: Kansas, northern lights, firestar, Monday morning, Cascades, AM EX.

 

[oldfartrider]

This was great info today. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Newpylong]

I'm wondering now who has the best gallons per minute pump capacity per acre ratio. I'm thinking WaWa or Jiminy Peak? Probably a small place in PA I'd assume too.

Good question.

Jiminy is actually less than you'd think. I don't have the exact number but they make good use of it for sure.

Wachusett is way up there for it's size - 8,000 GPM.

Crotched moves 6,000. Similar for Pat's

Hunter is up there too 10K.

 

[Newpylong]

Absurd number of guns running at SR today, off the top of my head: Kansas, northern lights, firestar, Monday morning, Cascades, AM EX.

I've been telling folks that this year is when the past several seasons of improvements comes together and they'll drop the royally. They'll have 100% or damn close to that place covered by mid-January if the winter doesn't suck.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

This was great info today. Thanks for sharing!

yes, I was surprised (and probably shouldn’t be) the smaller places south of New England have such high water capacity, but they also have a lot more melting so it makes sense they need to crank out as much as they can when the temps permit.

 

[MadPadraic]

I would gladly trade November skiing for an extra week or two in the spring

But is that an actual trade on offer?

 

[BodeMiller1]

But is that an actual trade on offer?