A question for the old-timers: is skiing more expensive now?

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

(Sorry, this might qualify as a "beating a dead horse" post, but I'll ask anyway.)


There's been some grumbling recently on this board that second and even third-tier hills are charging too much for day passes.

I know that skiing has always been an expensive sport, but it seems like things have indeed gone a little nutty over the past 5-10 years.

So, old-timers, is it true? Are we paying proportionally more for the sport we love? Or have generations and generations of families faced the same dilemma we face today? Is $54 to ski a place like Magic not out of line with the past?

(I'm only singling out the old-timers to benefit from their collective wisdom, of course....)

 

[Greg]

I have no data to back anything up, but it would be my guess that lift ticket prices have increased proportionately to energy costs.

 

[dmc]

I had less $ when i was young... So it was way expensive...

 

[campgottagopee]

All I can tell you that in the 70's lift tickets at Greek Peak were under 20 bucks. Now they are $54, some 30 or so years later I don't think that's too much of an increase. Season passes are only $229.00, so obviously you don't need to be a brain surgeon to figure out where the deal is.

 

[trtaylor]

I can remember putting aside savings for skiing when I was younger and that's what I do now. And I agree with what both DMC and Campgattagopee have posted.

And as others have posted there is no reason to pay the full shot on a daily ticket. I guess having a schedule which allows for mid-week skiing helps in that regard.

For you Penna. skiers check out Buckman's demo day vouchers. $20 lift ticket for Elk on 1/18/08 for example.

 

[tjf67]

All I can tell you that in the 70's lift tickets at Greek Peak were under 20 bucks. Now they are $54, some 30 or so years later I don't think that's too much of an increase. Season passes are only $229.00, so obviously you don't need to be a brain surgeon to figure out where the deal is.

Seems then that prices have been going up at 3 to 4 % per year. I will certainly take what we have now than what we did back then for the same price.

 

[campgottagopee]

Seems then that prices have been going up at 3 to 4 % per year. I will certainly take what we have now than what we did back then for the same price.

10-4 ON THAT

 

[Dr Skimeister]

Seems to me that the cost of our sport has remained relatively constant. Lift ticket price increases have been tied to inflation. I certianly think we get a better "product" for the money now. As the science of snowmaking has improved, skiing in the east has gotten substantially better. Lodges/food is better in that a day of skiing isn't as rustic-seeming as it was 20-30 years ago.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Seems then that prices have been going up at 3 to 4 % per year. I will certainly take what we have now than what we did back then for the same price.

10-4 ON THAT

Right on, you get way more for your money now. Longer season, better snow, more terrain open, way less time on lifts and in lift lines.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I think we get more for our money...back in the day weren't liftlines way longer??? Now liftlines rarely exceed 10-15 minutes except for the busiest weekends or at places with limited lift capacity like MRG..with High Speed Quads..I can crank out 30k of vert in 3.5 hours..mad steezy yo...I agree with DMC..back in the day I had alot less money. A $20 lift ticket when I was a paperboy seemed like alot more money than a $60 lift ticket is to me now..especially considering the kind of money I spend at the bar..

 

[CapeSkier]

If we are talking about price only, then yes, it is far more expensive now. I can remember a $6 lift ticket, but if you read my posts, you know how old I am.

The product, however, has improved dramatically. Snowmaking, available terrain, lift technology and speed, and so on. So while we pay proportionately more, we get more too. Mountains offer so much more now than the basic "get warm and have a hot chocolate" type base lodges. The consumer demands choice today, but choices cost money. Not to mention the energy costs of operating a mountain, and the hugely important issue of liability insurance, which was not nearly so costly in the days before the "I broke my leg, it's the mountain's fault" mentality arose.

It costs a bundle to get a family on the mountain now, but I guess it's better than it was when my dad was paying for it. Ice, rock, ice, rock, ice, rock...Then a menu choice of le hamburger or le hotdog.

One thing for sure that is different: In the 60's, I was the only kid I knew of (from my area) who had skied. Nobody else did it. I begged my parents to let me bring a friend, and that's how they got a start. It was inexpensive, so Dad said OK. I didn't meet any other kids who skied until I got older. Now it seems like everyone has at least been skiing or boarding at one time or another. And I could never afford to take one of my son's friends skiing with us, unless his parents set him up with cash. Of course, now they all drive there without me, so that's not a problem any more.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

In the 50's the cost of a day of skiing was $1-$5. When the Bush opened in 1958 it was the largest resort in Vermont and charged $5.50. The average price is pretty much right in line with the rise in medium incomes over the years.

 

[Talisman]

I think that while it is better equipment has gotten much more expesnsive. Boots and skis prices have escalated faster than lift ticket prices.

 

[Razor]

I can rmember skiing at Saddleback in the early 70s when I first got into the sport. You'd wait in line for 15 minutes, take the slow double to the top, and come down. A good day was 8-10 runs. At the bigger areas a 20-30 minute wait in line on weekends was normal, and once again 8-10 runs was a good day. A couple of days last year at Killington and Sunday River, I got in 30 runs in the same amount of time that we got 8-10 thirty years ago. Plus the equipment today is so much better. Relatively speaking, I don't think today is much more expensive, while the product is infinitely better.

 

[catskills]

I think that while it is better equipment has gotten much more expesnsive. Boots and skis prices have escalated faster than lift ticket prices.

I agree that the there are a lot more high end expensive skis and boots than in the past. Now with the China connection places like Sports Authority have cut equipment prices in half for some low end quality equipment. Fortunately todays low end quality equipment is far superior than equipment in the mid 1990s. Than there is eBay which changed everything. As for ticket prices I would say they are about equal to what they were in years past with a lot better quality skiing. I remember the grooming machines consisted of big blades that would make these huge ice chunks in the trail. Skiing on those so called groomed runs with nasty chunks of ice on long wood cable binding skis with ankle leather boots was a real experience that you may not want to repeat today. Lets just say you got what you paid for.

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

I think that while it is better equipment has gotten much more expesnsive. Boots and skis prices have escalated faster than lift ticket prices.

20 years ago a high end pair of skis was ~$400... if you figure a 4% rate for 20 years you end up with a current equivalent of $876 just for the skis...so no, not much of a change really. I remeber going to a shop in Boston in the early 80s with my mother when she paid $400 for a pair of Nordica Air boots...two buckle, rear entry with an air bladder inside around the instep...$400 today will buy you MUCH more boot than that. Other than the air bladder around the liner, you get a better liner in a $199 boot today. You also get much for ski for your money in the mid-price point now than you did many moons ago...there are some really good ski/binding systems out there for $699. The price of a college education on the other hand has FAR outpaced other goods and services...if the price of a gallon of gas had increased at the same rate as higher education over the last 10 years, it would cost you $9 a gallon to fill up (according to NPR earlier in the week)

 

[Old Geezer]

> So, old-timers, is it true?
Yes. No doubt about it. The cost of gear is something I think about. In the 60s and 70s it was a lot less expensive (at least that's how I remember it), and there was a lot less of it to be found. Now there's a ski shop in any medium sized town or city, in the past you had to go to NYC, Boston, Burlington to get gear on the east coast. Back then it was long johns, a heavy woolen jacket and 'over pants', gloves and a hat, all of which you in your everyday life also.

> When the Bush opened in 1958 it was the largest resort in Vermont and charged $5.50.
I was there in the early 60s. Going to Vermont to ski from the Mid Atlantic was a big deal back them. It was only the idle-rich and well to do who flew out west or to Europe for ski vacations in the 60s and 70s. Now it's common to do this several times a season. Common folks didn't spend money on travel like this 40 years ago.

 

[riverc0il]

Few comments here:

1) The average ticket price seems to have kept pace with inflation and income but has not kept pace with buying power of the dollar. So while the price paid is relative, what people are earning is not. Two income families struggle while 50 years ago one income families flourished. So it is easier to feel the pinch now even though average lift ticket prices are essentially on par with inflation and income.

2) Even though the average lift ticket price seems consistent with inflation and income adjustments, the upper end of the market is going through the roof. There is a huge discrepancy between $50, $60, $70, and the $80 price points that various mountains are offering for a day ticket (the variance is still there with package and ski & stay to some degree too).

3) Lift tickets can not be the only judge of expense. We also need to analyse food costs, gas, transportation, vehicle cost and maintenance, lodging costs, package pricing, gear, clothing, etc. For a family of four, I think the total package cost, especially when compared to buying power of the dollar instead of just inflation and income adjustments, is definitely more expensive now than before (especially comparing two income vs. one income of 50 years ago).

4) Skiers definitely "get" more now for their money. Better equipment, better lifts, better snow making, etc. But this is true of anything a consumer pays for over time. Technology always improves things so saying you get more than you pay for now vs. then is not really a valid argument, IMO, because this is generally the case. The skiing world is certainly nothing like the electronics world in which you pay less and get more, that is for sure.

So this question is always a mixed bag. The trend answer is "no, it has always been expensive" but I think there is more depth than that. More than ever, ski areas (excuse me, resorts) are catering to upper end crowds. That has been the case previously (Sugarbush, a.k.a. Mascara Mountain), but the point is the market trend is growing rapidly. Ski area owners and management seem to think the dollars are only with the expensive people creating a chicken versus the egg argument. Are they just following market trends or forcing the market to change. Look at all the resort development lately? Burke, Tenney, Haystack, etc.? Not exactly historically higher end top mountains you would consider for fancy resorts.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Few comments here:

1) The average ticket price seems to have kept pace with inflation and income but has not kept pace with buying power of the dollar. So while the price paid is relative, what people are earning is not. Two income families struggle while 50 years ago one income families flourished. So it is easier to feel the pinch now even though average lift ticket prices are essentially on par with inflation and income.

2) Even though the average lift ticket price seems consistent with inflation and income adjustments, the upper end of the market is going through the roof. There is a huge discrepancy between $50, $60, $70, and the $80 price points that various mountains are offering for a day ticket (the variance is still there with package and ski & stay to some degree too).

3) Lift tickets can not be the only judge of expense. We also need to analyse food costs, gas, transportation, vehicle cost and maintenance, lodging costs, package pricing, gear, clothing, etc. For a family of four, I think the total package cost, especially when compared to buying power of the dollar instead of just inflation and income adjustments, is definitely more expensive now than before (especially comparing two income vs. one income of 50 years ago).

4) Skiers definitely "get" more now for their money. Better equipment, better lifts, better snow making, etc. But this is true of anything a consumer pays for over time. Technology always improves things so saying you get more than you pay for now vs. then is not really a valid argument, IMO, because this is generally the case. The skiing world is certainly nothing like the electronics world in which you pay less and get more, that is for sure.

So this question is always a mixed bag. The trend answer is "no, it has always been expensive" but I think there is more depth than that. More than ever, ski areas (excuse me, resorts) are catering to upper end crowds. That has been the case previously (Sugarbush, a.k.a. Mascara Mountain), but the point is the market trend is growing rapidly. Ski area owners and management seem to think the dollars are only with the expensive people creating a chicken versus the egg argument. Are they just following market trends or forcing the market to change. Look at all the resort development lately? Burke, Tenney, Haystack, etc.? Not exactly historically higher end top mountains you would consider for fancy resorts.

I enjoyed reading that..excellent..

 

[skizoo]

I think it is more expensive today even adjusted for inflation but I feel you get more for your money,

look at this thread over at sugarloaf today,

http://www.sugarloaftoday.com/chat/viewtopic.php?t=1090&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

look down about 3 of 4 posts, you'll see a 77/78 price list,
a 7 day pass was $60 ! a 1 day midweek $10, 1 day weekends $11, I skied there about 20 days that year, but back in those days I certainly did not consider it inexpensive, but then again I had no money.