Alpine Zone Best Eastern Ski Resort Condorcet Poll

[skiersleft]

Poll Closed - Revised Poll Coming - Best Eastern Ski Resort in USA Condorcet Poll

We all know the magazine resort surveys suck. Either they are Western resort oriented or the Eastern resort survey is filled out by skiers who are not the kind of skiers most of us are. So let's find out what resorts we think are best.

The condorcet poll is the best internet voting polling device designed yet. In order for it to work, you must rank all 20 resorts in order of preference. The end result will provide a ranking, not just a winner and it will be more accurate than straight polls that can be run with the native polling device. Poll runs for a week. Results will be interesting.

You must go to this link to take the survey:

http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru...l?id=E_fa8dc47f579eb7f7&akey=057a04418ce2d8cf

This should be fun.

 

[LiquidFeet]

I'd like to take this poll, but it seems to be flawed. I hope I'm wrong about this.
I can't find a way to not rank the resorts I have not yet visited. So where do I put them... at the bottom? That doesn't seem fair to those resorts, which may not deserve rankings down near 20.

 

[riverc0il]

Ummmm.... Burke???

Also, I'd rate Ragged, Bromley, Pico, Bolton, Black (NH), and Abram (ME) better than many of the twenty included on your list.

 

[skiersleft]

Alright. This was bound to happen. Tell me wha other resorts are in the same league and I'll start a new poll. If you haven't been and don't want to rate them you can rank them 20. Its not flawed. It won't affect the results, as they will all come out the same against each other. The system knows how to work this out.

Please give me additional resorts that ought to be included. Tomorrow at 5pm
I'll run a new poll with all the resorts.

 

[deadheadskier]

NO SUNDOWN!!!!! Are you crazy? That's practically grounds for banning around these parts. :smash:

 

[skiersleft]

NO SUNDOWN!!!!! Are you crazy? That's practically grounds for banning around these parts. :smash:

Sundown? Where's that? Florida?

 

[skiersleft]

Alright. This was bound to happen. Tell me wha other resorts are in the same league and I'll start a new poll. If you haven't been and don't want to rate them you can rank them 20. Its not flawed. It won't affect the results, as they will all come out the same against each other. The system knows how to work this out.

Please give me additional resorts that ought to be included. Tomorrow at 5pm
I'll run a new poll with all the resorts.

I'm actually going to leave the options as is. I understand why river and others would like to add more, but the list is pretty representative and we already have a good amount of votes. Let's keep voting. Another poll will come along in several months.

Just don't forget to rank them all or as many as possible.

Sugarloaf is leading as we speak. Kton and Sunday River are way down. Interesting results so far. We'll keep the poll going for one week. Let's keep voting!

 

[riverc0il]

No prob. But you should have gone with 25. I can understand not including some smaller non-destination mountains, but Burke and Pico are both 2k mountains and are serious omissions. And Bolton, while not 2k, is definitely a major destination. Some might argue places like Hunter and Plattekill might deserve to be on there as well.

What I would be interested in knowing is how many voters have skied all of those 20 mountains and actually can compare without being influenced by perceptions and others' opinions. I have skied all of them except Stratton (which I am going to remedy this season). Vote submitted.

 

[wa-loaf]

Did you ask Nick permission to use AlpineZone in your survey?

 

[skiersleft]

No prob. But you should have gone with 25. I can understand not including some smaller non-destination mountains, but Burke and Pico are both 2k mountains and are serious omissions. And Bolton, while not 2k, is definitely a major destination. Some might argue places like Hunter and Plattekill might deserve to be on there as well.

What I would be interested in knowing is how many voters have skied all of those 20 mountains and actually can compare without being influenced by perceptions and others' opinions. I have skied all of them except Stratton (which I am going to remedy this season). Vote submitted.

I agree 100%. I didn't start over because there are already a good number of votes cast. And, also, although you are right that Pico and Burke should be there, I
assume that they are unlikely to make it to the top 5 and may not make it to the top ten, so I think the end result of this poll as is will be interesting even with those omissions.

BTW, it's weird how I omitted Pico, as Kton is my home mountain and I thus sk Pico every year. Anyway, it will be there next time.

And your question is a good one. I have only skied

Gore
Whiteface
Kton
Stowe
Sugarloaf

This year I will add 2 or 3 more. I was able to rank most of them according to reputation and moutain stats. I know, for example, that Jay should near the top even though I haven't skied there. Sugarbush as well and that MRG has some of the gnarliest inbounds terrain in the East. They all made it to my top ten obviously.

So cool that you will have skied all of them once you go to Stratton this year!

For those of you who have not voted, please vote now! The Condorcet voting system is very accurate and its algorithm provides a fair way of ranking mountains even if you decide you don't want to rank some because you don't know enough abou them. Just try and rank them all if you can. If not, rank as many as possible.

 

[Cannonball]

We all know the magazine resort surveys suck. Either they are Western resort oriented or the Eastern resort survey is filled out by skiers who are not the kind of skiers most of us are. So let's find out what resorts we think are best.

I agree that the magazine polls suck. But at least they tend to break out attributes of resorts. You've taken two completely unrelated attributes and combined them as the only criteria for ranking. "Choose your best resort. The criteria are (1) Challenge and Diversity of Terrain, (2) Apres Ski experience both on and off the mountain." It's impossible to rank areas like MRG, Wildcat, & Cannon in the same poll as Killington and Loon with no differentiation in the value of these 2 attributes.

Also, Burke, Waterville, and Black would nudge out others on this list for my top 20.

 

[Black Phantom]

You should have a poll listing the greatest chairlifts in the East that you have not ridden .

 

[riverc0il]

Also, Burke, Waterville, and Black would nudge out others on this list for my top 20.

Good call, I missed the omission of Waterville. I definitely would have rated many of the omitted areas within my top 10-15 and Burke would have been somewhere around 6 or 7.

Also good call on rating overall vs category. This was a difficult poll to complete because I like different areas for different reasons. Often times, neither area is better but are better at certain times or for certain things.

Oh well, no poll is perfect.

 

[skiersleft]

I agree that the magazine polls suck. But at least they tend to break out attributes of resorts. You've taken two completely unrelated attributes and combined them as the only criteria for ranking. "Choose your best resort. The criteria are (1) Challenge and Diversity of Terrain, (2) Apres Ski experience both on and off the mountain." It's impossible to rank areas like MRG, Wildcat, & Cannon in the same poll as Killington and Loon with no differentiation in the value of these 2 attributes.

Also, Burke, Waterville, and Black would nudge out others on this list for my top 20.

Fair enough. I just think that those are the most important criteria. But they are there in the order I think they should be. First and foremost, terrain diversity and challenge. Second, drinking and eating after lifts close. But, it's clear that AlpineZoners have decided to rank mostly on the basis of terrain challenge and diversity, which explains why MRG is near the top. I'm fine with that. Only that in case of two similar areas in terms of terrain, après ski experience might tilt the scales in favor of one over the other.

No poll is perfect, but this will give us a pretty good idea of where we stand. I was browsing websites that have used condorcet and have come with a solution to factor in the omissions. Once we have a final ranking, readers will be asked to place Burke, Waterville, Pico, etc. within the ranking. River will probably say he would rank Burke between 6 and 7, Pico between x and y, etc. That will at least allow us to have a sense of where these other areas stand. In any case, the top 5 are very likely on the list and most, if not all of the top ten.

Please continue voting and do try to rank as many and of possible all of the resorts even if you haven't been to them. Use reputation, mountain stats, trip reports on the board, etc. as proxies if you haven't been to.

 

[deadheadskier]

In skiersleft's defense, he is very new to this forum, so I don't think he realizes the passion some of the members of AZ have for mid-size areas like Ragged, Mount Abram and Black.

I think he's right in that none of the suggested additions would make it into the top 5. In fact most of the suggested additions probably wouldn't make it into the top 15. The one exception might be Burke. For those who have skied there, I think it would rate in or close to their top 10; it is that good. There are lots of passionate Pico skiers on this forum as well, though I don't think quite as many fans as Burke.

Rivercoil brings up a good point about people voting on areas that they have not been to purely on what they've read about areas. I've been to all of the areas on that list except for Whiteface and Gore. Based upon everything I've read about Whiteface and Gore, I ranked them 7th and 13th out of the 20 on the list. Those were conservative rankings as well. I have a feeling that I might rate Whiteface in my top 5 and Gore my top 10 once I experience them.

One other popular mountain absent from that list is Mount Sunapee.

 

[skiersleft]

Vote here -

http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru...a8dc47f579eb7f7&akey=057a04418ce2d8cf_NWe-tAb

 

[Cannonball]

Fair enough. I just think that those are the most important criteria.

Got it. But that means WE are voting based on what YOU value. Apres ski offerings carry almost zero value for me. Cost, accessibility, snow quality, proximity to other outdoor options (XC, BC, etc) are things I value in a mountain. Other people may value family-friendly over any of your criteria or mine. Maybe change the poll title to: "Help skiersleft determine the resort he'd like best based on your experience"

 

[skiersleft]

Got it. But that means WE are voting based on what YOU value. Apres ski offerings carry almost zero value for me. Cost, accessibility, snow quality, proximity to other outdoor options (XC, BC, etc) are things I value in a mountain. Other people may value family-friendly over any of your criteria or mine. Maybe change the poll title to: "Help skiersleft determine the resort he'd like best based on your experience"

I understand. So, to clarify, vote on what you value. I was just providing some guidelines. If you don't value après ski, don't let that figure in to your vote. I assume that's already in play, as it likely explains MRG's high ranking. It's all good. Just vote according to what you like. We're all committed skiers here, so we know what we're looming for. Don't want you to vote according to my values. Vote according to yours.

But Vote!!

 

[skiersleft]

In skiersleft's defense, he is very new to this forum, so I don't think he realizes the passion some of the members of AZ have for mid-size areas like Ragged, Mount Abram and Black.

I think he's right in that none of the suggested additions would make it into the top 5. In fact most of the suggested additions probably wouldn't make it into the top 15. The one exception might be Burke. For those who have skied there, I think it would rate in or close to their top 10; it is that good. There are lots of passionate Pico skiers on this forum as well, though I don't think quite as many fans as Burke.

Rivercoil brings up a good point about people voting on areas that they have not been to purely on what they've read about areas. I've been to all of the areas on that list except for Whiteface and Gore. Based upon everything I've read about Whiteface and Gore, I ranked them 7th and 13th out of the 20 on the list. Those were conservative rankings as well. I have a feeling that I might rate Whiteface in my top 5 and Gore my top 10 once I experience them.

One other popular mountain absent from that list is Mount Sunapee.

You're right. I wasn't aware of the passion for mid sized ski areas on this board. After this poll I'll run another one for smaller sized areas.

 

[riverc0il]

You're right. I wasn't aware of the passion for mid sized ski areas on this board. After this poll I'll run another one for smaller sized areas.

I'm not sure you got DHS's point if you do a poll dedicated just to mid-sized areas. Many on this forum enjoy mid-sized areas more than larger areas. DHS wasn't suggesting have another poll for smaller areas but rather that many are competitive against larger ones and many are just downright better than larger areas. Black (NH), Balsams (NH), and Abram (ME) would make my top twenty over areas such as Okemo, Mount Snow, and probably Stratton (though admittedly I can't directly compare yet).

Here is my suggestion: Put together a poll with every single area in the east and allow participants to rank only those areas that they have actually skied out of all available areas. I think that will give you better results and a more accurate poll. Perhaps you could eliminate feeder areas less than 500' vert. I don't think any one is going to rank a 500' vert area in their top twenty unless they have a particular connection for said area that goes beyond how they would normally rank an area (i.e. they wouldn't drive 2-3 hours to ski their local feeder hill).