AlpineZone Ski Area Challenge: Sugarloaf/USA

[loafer89]

The Sugarloaf chat area can be found on their website if you go to sugarloaf.com and click on winter. When you get to the winter site you can click on the photo of the day and then find the chat area on the upper left hand side. I do not believe that the chat was removed for techical reasons either, as mentioned before Killington's chat is up and running, I just visited it and you do not have to register anymore to access the chat area. I visited Sugarloaf's chat area in early Janaury 2004 to get an honest answer to what the conditions were really like, before driving up for my vacation. I really did not notice any malicious or threatening messages. I heard scuttlebut that it was removed because the management felt that some posts were undermining the validity of their snow reports. Still this mountain seems to have more of a free spirited attitude torwards its guests and I was suprised to see the editorial in the chat area, explaining why it was removed from their website. I agree that it really does take away alot of credibility of the information contained within.

 

[skican]

Oh they shut it down alright! I was a member for 2 years and I was bummed to lose it. Management said something about the liability...blah blah. There was some management bashing and alot of bashing of the daily update.

Someone mentioned an illegal substance....

They all went to K2Trav's site. I think he originally had something to do with the Sugarloaf site. I have put it out of my mind and found this site right after they shut it down. The only way I can find K2Travs site now is through a link in the Sunday River Chat Room.

Happily ever after.

CantDog, do you remember the deal? CantDog was also a poster there. Very knowledgeable and also very funny. I was happy to see him posting here.

 

[loafer89]

Its hard to believe that they shut down the Sugarloaf chat site because of improper posts. Killington's site has alot of posts that could be considered offensive to some. While visiting the site today, I saw sex jokes, a cartoon depiction of Hitler at the bottom of one post and posts that just plain attack the management of that resort. If some of that does not offend certain people (Im not one of them) and their chat is still online, what could be so awfull with the chat at Sugarloaf. I guess that Sugarloaf has more of a family appeal than the rest in ASC ownership and they want to avoid stepping on some toes.

 

[u brain]

This sounds so similar to what happened with the ski club of great britain's discussion forum. Two seasons old, it was really turning into a major centre of info for Skiing Europe side, not to mention a rather friendly community of similarly obsessed people.
Suddenly in Feb as it was all going better than ever, the ski club closed it with no warning.

There had, over 2yrs, been 3 or 4 incidents of the ski club 'being criticised'. I always viewed these incidents as something positive for the club since a criticism to one's face is far easier to address then one behind the back. The ski club didn't seem to agree and considered it a liberty that someone should use their own chat forum to criticise them.

However, once challenged (non-stop for a week) by the contingent of their membership who valued the chat facility, the ski club announced that they were in fact, acting upon some kind of legal advice regarding the club's liability for what is posted on the forum.
I have no definitive evidence but it is generally accepted that this advice was of the form "we can not assure you that you are not liable" which, in my book, suggests getting better informed advice but it would appear the ski club was not particularly keen on its discussion forum being used anyway and restricted it to club members only. It has now fallen into almost complete dis-use and most of the former users are at snowHeads now (which is much better than the old forum anyway).

The most annoying thing when this happens is the way that an inconsiderate organisation can shatter a community so easily. A lot of people who were active on the ski club forum disappeared for ages and even 3 months later we are getting people turning up at snowHeads saying "glad I found u at last". However, as good as it is to see a familiar name turn up, it's also enormously frustrating that they've been missing for so long and that the ski club refused even to mention on their site an alternative meeting place. "It may be constituted as a recommendation making us liable for anything that happens there" - what a crock!!!!

Somebody needs new lawyers me thinks :roll:

 

[Greg]

Just a guess, but I bet most ski areas see little benefit of hosting a forum. I think KChat and the SR chat are more the exception than the rule. The fact a ski area hosts a forum on their Web site probably has very little positive effect on their bottom line. Therefore, if the tone of the forum shifts to something that can hurt them from a business standpoint, then it is in their best interest to take it down. Ski area marketing folks are busy people, and many don't have the time to reply to posts or defend their position on certain topics. Just imagine the types of debate that could ensue between a ski area rep and a message board user.

The Challenge was developed to provide a structured way for the general skiing public to ask specific questions of resort reps. It's been working pretty well so far and we've got some great information. It really is a "safe" form of dialogue and the response from the ski areas has been pretty positive so far. Only two have specifically declined to participate.

BTW, any former Sugarloaf chatters are certainly welcome to participate here...

 

[trailbiscuit]

I used to be the moderator/monitor/administrator/post-Nazi, whatever-you-want-to-call-it for the official SR chat. It is a thankless and miserbable job. OK, not that bad because it was a good way for people to have questions answered about the resort in an informal manner. But, it also causes some problems for the ski area in two major ways 1.) Liability, because it is on the official resort site, but the content isn't controlled and 2.) Marketing vs. reality, i.e. "Someday Bigger sucks...the Loaf rules!" or "I was there yesterday and it was blue ice." Just stuff that the ski area brass doesn't like to see posted about it. I'm surprised any ski area chats still exist. These "unofficial" forums, i.e. not sanctioned by one particular entity, work much better for everyone invloved. Plus, as a poster, I don't have to worry about being edited...at a ski area chat, the ski area has the ability to nuke any post it doesn't like. Although, I rarely did this unless someone said something bad about my mama!

 

[Monkey Boy]

For the past 5 winter's we have gone to sugarloaf for a weekend at least twice a season. We didn't go this year, why? Because the ski and stay packages seemed to have increase by $250-$300 a weekend. We have stayed in the past for a weekend ski and stay for around $400 a weekend. Now the same weekends are over $700. I would think that with the distance that the loaf is from everything that you would provide something that most people could afford. I got plenty of skiing in this year, with the $299 pass for ATBP and SR, it gave me those 2 mtns, plus 1/2 price lift tickets at Jaypeak,( all season) and at Wildcat ( Sunday - Friday) I love Sugarloaf, and if I could I would go there everyweekend. If you guys are seeing a decline in skier visits maybe this is one reason. Also the reputation for wind holds is spreading. I rode many a lift this year where that topic of conversation came up.

 

[loafer89]

I skied at Sugarloaf twice this year, once from January 11-16th and again from April 9-11th. Both times the rates that we got seemed reasonable. We booked our January ski trip in October and got a week of skiing in a one bedroom condo for $845. Now looking back on what happened to the snow conditions in late December with the thaw, I'll wait until the last minute until making vacation plans again to be sure about the conditions in the future.

As for the wind hold, I experienced one day on January 16th, with the entire mountain closed. It was about 5-10F with a 35-50 mile per hour wind at the BASE AREA, so I guess that skiing higher up would have been impossible. I heard that they had a record 16 wind hold days last season, but there is not much that can be done about that. Guest services handed us vouchers good for the next year with no hassle, so I was not too upset, in fact we used those vouchers when we returned in April.

One thing that is troubling, is that the condos are increasingly in a state of poor repair, with our stove being out of order for our whole trip in January,
and our firplace and roll away bed broken in April. Still it's a fantastic ski area, and we plan to go for 7-10 days next year, provided that ASC is not Bankrupt by then.

 

[Charlie Schuessler]

I usually go to the Loaf in April for Reggaefest. We book early, get good rates and go for the skiing. By then the cold weather is gone and when it is early in April, the conditions are probably the best in New England. Driving from Long Island is a long haul in the winter...you must really love the Loaf to do that. I moved up from LI in '78 just to be closer to the mountains and my 4 1/2-hour ride to the Loaf is my driving limit. I prefer NH & Vermont for cold weather skiing, it is closer to home, and requires less driving over the two-lane frost heaves the authorities call roads.

I don’t know what to think about ASC, they overpaid for their properties and may be forced to sell/auction off the assets low...the company has never performed well for their shareholders.

Think Snow!

 

[loafer89]

Yes I really do love Sugarloaf and have been skiing there since 1989. The drive takes us abour 8/1/2 hours door to door. I was there during the ice storm in January 1998, so I've seen worse conditions than this past January.
I agree that it is better to ski this place late in the season, April has always provided the best ski and weather conditions. If ASC does sell of some of its properties, Sugarloaf is most likely first on the list, I doubt that it ever earned a profit for the company.

 

[afrobsammy]

Dog Sleds

What ever happened to the dog sledding that was available around the base of the access road? Will that activity be returning in the future?

The operator used to be a family friend, used to give me free sled rides as a kid. The failure of his business is less tragic than his life. Gave up marrying into a pretty wealthy family, so he could stay in the valley. Then his business went sour. We rented our camp to him for a while, untill he could no longer make payments. I don't now where he is now.

 

[Monkey Boy]

I know that booking early is a cheaper way to do things but the pricing I was refering to we were getting the week before our trip. We would book on Wednesday for a weekend trip and get a $350-$450 for a ski and stay. We would book for the 1 week condo vacation a month ahead of time and get that $800-$900 rate. Now it's up to $1300 for that week and the weekends are up to $700, and this is a matter of 1-2 seasons. I am not sure why this has happended. I love this mtn, and I missed it this year. Hopefully they can do something to let the common man ski at Sugarloaf again.

 

[Greg]

Don't feel too bad about missing Sugarloaf this year. It's a long ways to go, and way expensive. And this years weather was not conducive to real good conditions. Sugarloaf is my first or second favorite mountain, depending on the years conditions, but last year, they just didn't have it....

I beg to differ. I skied Sugarloaf during Reggae and the conditions were about as variable as they get - corn, ice, rocks, dirt, mud, etc. It's still my new favorite mountain. I think the fact that it is this huge ski mountain in the middle of nowhere is what makes it so intriguing. It's far, but not that far. We made it back to seacoast NH in a little over 3 hours. If we had gone to Killington or some other of the Vermont resorts, it would have taken us at least that long. In fact, I drove the additional 3 hours back home to CT that same day (after skiing the AM) and I survived.

 

[loafer89]

April 11th at Sugarloaf, was my best day of the season. 102 Trails open, bluebird sky and groomed packed powder on most of the trails off the Superquad. If i could bottle up a ski day for another day, this would be in the top 5. Granted the snow cover was quite thin in alot of places, and the snowfield cover was sparce, but still a great day.

 

[Greg]

Greg, I guess some of that went right over my head :dunce: . I do agree with you that while it is far away, it's really not much farther than other big resorts.

I probably should clarify. I stayed overnight with a friend who lives in Southern New Hampshire before heading to the 'Loaf. He's two hours from Loon and three from Killington so just over three hours to get to a place like the 'Loaf is definitely tolerable.

 

[loafer89]

By the way, I also drove for 7 hours(365 miles to the Bridgeport ferry) after skiing from 9-12:30. We made our plans to ski Sugarloaf at the last minute and still got a one bedrom condo for 3 nights for $460, the same price that Killington was asking for an equivalent deal.