American Skiing Company - "Northeast Skier Visits"

[SkiDog]

Lets just keep throwing money at the lodges like Snowshed...I know thats where I spend most of my time...do you think I go there to ski????? I just put on my bogner neon one piece and sit in the bar with a drink...DUH....who needs snowmaking??? Who cares whos first to open and last to close unless we're talking about the bars....?

Thanks ASC...keep up the good work

Unbelievable...

M

 

[JimG.]

Always playing devil's advocate, so how is what Killington has become any different from what any big corporation in America has become?

You got a problem with money? Borrow some until your choking on debt. Need more? Sure, we'll prop you up because we can't afford to have you sold off for a song.

You got a problerm with your computer? Talk to the nice person from India about it. You got a problem with your skiing experience? Talk to the nice person from the Virgin Islands about it.

You want cheap? Go to Wal Mart, but remember that whatever you buy will last for a maximum of 1 week. You want cheap ski passes? Buy an All for one pass, but remember that we're in debt and can't afford to lower prices, so the skiing and service will suck.

This is America boys and girls.

 

[SkiDog]

Always playing devil's advocate, so how is what Killington has become any different from what any big corporation in America has become?

You got a problem with money? Borrow some until your choking on debt. Need more? Sure, we'll prop you up because we can't afford to have you sold off for a song.

You got a problerm with your computer? Talk to the nice person from India about it. You got a problem with your skiing experience? Talk to the nice person from the Virgin Islands about it.

You want cheap? Go to Wal Mart, but remember that whatever you buy will last for a maximum of 1 week. You want cheap ski passes? Buy an All for one pass, but remember that we're in debt and can't afford to lower prices, so the skiing and service will suck.

This is America boys and girls.

Unfortunate side effect of "big business"......but VERY true.

M

 

[JimG.]

Unfortunate side effect of "big business"......but VERY true.

M

I think what alot of folks don't want to admit is that many of these changes in corporate America have come about because this is what the majority of consumers want or are perceived to want. The moral is be careful what you wish for.

The good thing is that these policies can be changed by the consumer too...by voting with your dollars and not skiing at areas that don't align themselves with what you want. It's tough to let a seemingly great deal like the All for one slide by, but you are supporting what it appears you don't want by buying it.

And I believe that the drop in skier visits this past season should be viewed as a resounding "no, we don't like that" to ASC.

 

[SkiDog]

I think what alot of folks don't want to admit is that many of these changes in corporate America have come about because this is what the majority of consumers want or are perceived to want. The moral is be careful what you wish for.

The good thing is that these policies can be changed by the consumer too...by voting with your dollars and not skiing at areas that don't align themselves with what you want. It's tough to let a seemingly great deal like the All for one slide by, but you are supporting what it appears you don't want by buying it.

And I believe that the drop in skier visits this past season should be viewed as a resounding "no, we don't like that" to ASC.

Agreed...but unfortunately I already bought the 06-07 pass...my bad.. LOL

M

 

[ctenidae]

Oak Hill invested a total of about $315M, last round was in 2001. The biggest single holder of stock now appears to be Cerberus (1,352,800 shares), a hedge fund that, among other things, deals in distressed secuirities. AIG Global Asset Management just picked up (rather, just reported) 765,881 shares.

Most of ASC's debt is in the form of construction leins, mostly held by BoA.

I've talked to several distressed debt private equity managers, and not one of them has shown the least interest in ASC, which basically means that they don't think ASC will be able to service its debt. Big surprise, there.

The OTC stock is up 5% at the moment. For those of you keeping score at home, that's one cent.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

I would be curious how the decrease in skier/days match up with the decrease in days open vs last year. If the decreases match up I would think that shows that businesswise this past season vs the year before were pretty even.

. AIG Global Asset Management just picked up (rather, just reported) 765,881 shares.

That's pretty interesting. AIG GBAM is part of AIG the huge multinational insurance company that has owned Stowe for years. Taking into account the stock price both Cerberus and AIG's stake is basically chump change when compared to 315m that Oak Hill owns.

 

[skibum1321]

AIG Global Asset Management just picked up (rather, just reported) 765,881 shares.

What'd that cost them - about $100?

 

[ski_resort_observer]

What'd that cost them - about $100?

ROFLMAO!

 

[skibum1321]

ROFLMAO!

Translation please?

 

[Greg]

Translation please?

Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off.

http://www.gaarde.org/acronyms/

 

[thetrailboss]

I find it interesting how at least two forums, ours and this one are discussing this very press release and what it means. Some very good observations and points. I hope that the the powers to be are following these discussions, but I doubt it.

 

[skibum1321]

Nothing would make me happier than ASC finally folding.

I cannot believe someone would root for failure.

Perhaps saying something like ASC should sell out and a new conglomerate could dispose of the debt and get them back into the ski business full time.

ASC represents everything that is wrong with the ski world. From what I hear Kmart actually used to be a decent mountain until ASC got their hands on it. Now it is the laughing stock of the ski industry. At this point, it would seem in the best interests of everyone involved for ASC to just disappear. It's not like any of these mountains wouldn't be bought up in a second (hopefully by individual investors who each buy one mountain instead of all 6). Then maybe they could help bring these mountains back to their glory days.

So yes, I do root for them to fail miserably.

 

[SkiDog]

ASC represents everything that is wrong with the ski world. From what I hear Kmart actually used to be a decent mountain until ASC got their hands on it. Now it is the laughing stock of the ski industry. At this point, it would seem in the best interests of everyone involved for ASC to just disappear. It's not like any of these mountains wouldn't be bought up in a second (hopefully by individual investors who each buy one mountain instead of all 6). Then maybe they could help bring these mountains back to their glory days.

So yes, I do root for them to fail miserably.

Truthfully, I don't think Killington had a losing year money wise UNTIL ASC took over...

M

 

[Geoff]

ASC represents everything that is wrong with the ski world. From what I hear Kmart actually used to be a decent mountain until ASC got their hands on it. Now it is the laughing stock of the ski industry. At this point, it would seem in the best interests of everyone involved for ASC to just disappear. It's not like any of these mountains wouldn't be bought up in a second (hopefully by individual investors who each buy one mountain instead of all 6). Then maybe they could help bring these mountains back to their glory days.

So yes, I do root for them to fail miserably.

Killington always had issues in the Preston Smith era. It was always marketed with superlatives. Biggest, steepest, longest, widest, .... ASC had nothing to do with butchering the place to create ultra-wide trails that destroyed the character of the place. Downdraft & Big Dipper used to be some of the best tree skiing in the east. Chainsaws killed Downdraft and hacking out Double Dipper killed off most of the trees in Big Dipper. Superstar used to be a narrow twisty natural snow trail as were Skyelark and Bittersweet. The Preston Smith-era Killington did a million skier visits but only had half the uphill capacity. 45 minute liftlines weren't unusual. On the flip side, the skiing surface was much better since you had far fewer people trashing the snow. I think Killington was at its best when Bear was a triple, Superstar was natural snow, Downdraft had trees, and there was limited uphill capacity.

The main thing that ASC ruined, beyond adding too much uphill capacity, was the first to open, last to close culture. I always reasoned that if I were to get a season pass and ski one mountain exclusively, I wanted to go with the one that opened first, closed last, and had the most terrain. Sadly, much of the terrain has been turned into boring snowmaking trails. Killington now opens when everybody else does in mid-November. Killington now barely limps into May.

ASC did fix a couple of things. They put a big wing on the K base lodge bar. They ran a pipe to the Woodward Reservoir so they now have infinite snowmaking water.

They added the K1 gondola and reconfigured the Needles Eye double into a much shorter HSQ. I think both of those served to ruin the mountain. They also reconfigured the Rams Head double with a much shorter HSQ which I think was a good thing since it created an advanced-beginner area. The terrain parks and half pipe have rendered Bear Mountain unusable.

Snowmaking quality has really gone downhill. You have to be really careful skiing a freshly blown trail since there will always be a number of death slides down iced-up whales where they got the air/water mix wrong. You'd think that with a huge budget item like snowmaking, they'd hire enough supervisors to get the product right.

Food is now incredibly bad. The Preston Smith Killington put a premium food product at the Bear Bar. You could get a very nice deli sandwich with an interesting side. ASC, keeping food costs to 30% of sales price, slashed that to a stale roll, one piece of meat, one piece of cheese, and potato chips. That 30% restriction produces lousy food all over the resort.

Staff service is about the same. It's the Beast of the East with the worst of NYC and Boston as customers and weekend crowds that tax the infrastructure. No amount of supervision and training is going to fix the root problem. Only limiting ticket sales and enforcing manners by yanking lift tickets is going to do that.

 

[ctenidae]

Only limiting ticket sales and enforcing manners by yanking lift tickets is going to do that.

That's a pretty harsh prescription that, while probably right, is highly unlikely to be followed by a (publicly traded, albeit thinly) corporation. Best thing that could happen to ASC is for it to be taken private so its debt could be consolidated and its operations either improved of broken up and sold off. It shouldn't be that ahrd to structure a deal that would help make things right, but getting anyone to buy into it will be tough. At this point, it's throwing good money after bad.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

It's probably hard to find good local workers since many of them want to be part of NH. :lol:
Remeber when LBO proposed a huge base area development...they were going to invest 750m...that's 3/4 of a billion. I guess it didn't work out and they eventually sold the development rights to someone else a few years ago.

Didn't ASC put in a huge new snowmaking pond in the late 90's. I remember the snowmaking guru at the Bush had to spend the summer at Kmart supervising the construction.

Too many shopping and dining are more important than the skiing. For a resort the size of Kmart they fall way short when compared to Stowe. When the wife and I stayed on the access road last year for a couple of nights I was surprised there was not more development. If your young and want to party Kmart does seem to have several good places for that and there was some nice restaurants but how many people actually walk up and down those beautiful sidewalks they built?

 

[thetrailboss]

I don't think they "sold" the development rights, more like "surrendered" them to a creditor.

 

[snowsprite]

I don't go on ski weekends for the shopping or dining and personally as long as there is some little bar to go grab a beer I'm happy. Who cares about a ton of little shops and restaurants? Look at Sugarbush, it doesn't have them, and gets along fine without them.

Sprite

 

[ski_resort_observer]

. Who cares about a ton of little shops and restaurants? Look at Sugarbush, it doesn't have them, and gets along fine without them.
Sprite

I'm with you but unfortunately a majority of destination customers do. BTW, I think the the Mad River Valley has many great restaurants(Common Man, Pitcher Inn, Big World, the Den, American Flatbread, Chez Henri, 1824 House, many more and shops plus no fast food chains, not even a stoplight.