Article on "mega pass" being bad for the sport

[mbedle]

There's a new factor to the equation for next year - "EPIC for Everyone". Advance purchase 1-7 day "pass" valid at all Vail owned resorts, which at its best can get daily rate to $106. Not exactly a bargain, but way lower than walk up or short-term advance purchase.

Actually, the epic day pass non holiday can get the day rates down to $89 adult and $47 child.

 

[mbedle]

Speaking of pricing out new skiers, how many children/young adults actually learn how to ski at the major resorts? I got to believe that the majority of people start skiing at their local smaller feeder hills. Most of those places are not associated with Vail or Alterra and the some that are, still have very reasonable day rates. Do we honestly think that a bunch of high school kids are traveling up to Stowe to try out skiing or just heading over to Mountain Creek? All the parents that I know down here in PA take their kids to the local places to introduce their kids to skiing.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Speaking of pricing out new skiers, how many children/young adults actually learn how to ski at the major resorts? I got to believe that the majority of people start skiing at their local smaller feeder hills. Most of those places are not associated with Vail or Alterra and the some that are, still have very reasonable day rates. Do we honestly think that a bunch of high school kids are traveling up to Stowe to try out skiing or just heading over to Mountain Creek? All the parents that I know down here in PA take their kids to the local places to introduce their kids to skiing.

Disagree.

And I can tell you when I worked at Stowe a ****ton of first-time-on-skis folks showed-up every week.

Hell, by the time I even learned of a Magic or a Plattekill for the first time I was already an advanced skier. It turns out, major corporations spend millions of dollars on marketing for a reason.

 

[skiur]

Most people are coming from NYC and Boston, they don't have feeder hills.

 

[Domeskier]

Most people are coming from NYC and Boston, they don't have feeder hills.

Don’t know much about Boston, but there are lots of local hills in the Triststate area.

 

[deadheadskier]

Boston area has Blue Hills, Bradford, Ward and Nashoba. Wachusette used to be, but they price it almost as high as much larger areas in NH.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[JimG.]

Don’t know much about Boston, but there are lots of local hills in the Triststate area.

In fact, more ski areas in NY than any other state. Many are small feeder hills.

 

[abc]

But perhaps like skiur, they don’t know there’re feeder hills nearby. So they go to the only ones they heard of, Stowe etc.

 

[Boxtop Willie]

Bradford, Ward Hill, Blue Hills and Nashoba are the definition of feeder hill. I'll bet they did a combined 200,000 lessons this year...probably more. And the vast majority kids levels 1-4. One would think the larger areas would pay more attention.

 

[jimk]

I was probably the poster child a few weeks ago for why resorts charge such high walk-up rates. Planned a last minute trip (like 10 days in advance) out west to ski with friends. Was my only trip out west and don't have IKON or EPIC. Knew we were going to be at PCMR or DV, but didn't have a day by day plan or even how many days at each resort, only than we would figure it out day or two before the actual ski day where we'd go. And even when we did for example purchase tickets online the night before, the "discount" off the walk up rates was only like $5. That plus eating in the lodges was pretty costly. Interestingly, PCMR food prices were now pretty much the same as DV, but portion sizes and quality at DV were much better.

Interesting post and I applaud your candidness. I am so far removed from this mindset that I am curious how it came about for you. I usually have next season mostly planned out before the last one ends. Did someone propose the trip to you and entice you to participate late in the schedule? Were you attracted to the good snow fall out west this year and wanted to storm chase? Did an unexpected opening in your work allow for free time? Did you come into some money
Thanks.

About the mega passes, all I can say is the numerous western resorts I've been to this winter (A-Basin, Crested Butte, Snowbird, Park City, Big Sky are all hopping. Business is good out here!

 

[Edd]

Interesting post and I applaud your candidness. I am so far removed from this mindset that I am curious how it came about for you. I usually have next season mostly planned out before the last one ends.

I’ve never planned it out that far in advance. I wait to see if an area is having a good overall season first. I could see reserving ahead at a cat skiing operation in BC kind of place, which may have limited spots.

 

[skiur]

In fact, more ski areas in NY than any other state. Many are small feeder hills.

NYS has plenty of small feeder hills, but NYC does not......not many people get their start at campgaw which would be the closest small hill to NYC, People from NYC (which makes up the an awful lot of people going to VT) are going to hunter, mt snow, killington etc because that is where their friends and family are going.

 

[abc]

I’ve never planned it out that far in advance. I wait to see if an area is having a good overall season first. I could see reserving ahead at a cat skiing operation in BC kind of place, which may have limited spots.

I used to do that.

But the mega-pass had changed it. The price of paying last minute lift tickets means I could ski twice as many days/places for the same cost if I’m on a pass. So now I pick a pass that has a wide geographic diversity and wait for snow to fall on one of the mountains included in the pass. That used to mean Mountain Collective, then MAX/IKON. Though with latest Vail acquisition in different regions, EPIC is also becoming an option.

I think I maybe what Alterra was targeting. Vacationer who wants the price break of advanced purchase with still the freedom to chase snow.

 

[abc]

NYS has plenty of small feeder hills, but NYC does not......not many people get their start at campgaw which would be the closest small hill to NYC, People from NYC (which makes up the an awful lot of people going to VT) are going to hunter, mt snow, killington etc because that is where their friends and family are going.

Actually, Thunder Ridge is closer. And it does get plenty of beginners from NYC.

But like I said, most people don’t know about these feeder hills. Hunter, Stratton and Okemo are the ads you see in the subways and buses.

 

[Edd]

I used to do that.

But the mega-pass had changed it. The price of paying last minute lift tickets means I could ski twice as many days/places for the same cost if I’m on a pass. So now I pick a pass that has a wide geographic diversity and wait for snow to fall on one of the mountains included in the pass. That used to mean Mountain Collective, then MAX/IKON. Though with latest Vail acquisition in different regions, EPIC is also becoming an option.

I think I maybe what Alterra was targeting. Vacationer who wants the price break of advanced purchase with still the freedom to chase snow.

Buying a Ikon-like Pass makes perfect sense for many of us, but I read jimk’s post as committing to an area with plane tix and hotel reservations the season before.

It’s not a huge gamble but we’ve seen dry seasons in recent years (Tahoe, Utah).


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[Killingtime]

Actually, Thunder Ridge is closer. And it does get plenty of beginners from NYC.

But like I said, most people don’t know about these feeder hills. Hunter, Stratton and Okemo are the ads you see in the subways and buses.

You can take Metro North from Grand Central to Thunder Ridge. They will pick you up at the Patterson train station on weekends. You are right though, most people don't know about these small hills because they lack the advertising budgets. Stratton spent big money this year on NYC/LI area advertising. Their ads are everywhere. CT has a bunch of feeder hills, but again no one knows about them because there is little to no advertising. You would think the CT Tourism Board could put together some kind of inexpensive campaign to promote them.

 

[jimk]

Buying a Ikon-like Pass makes perfect sense for many of us, but I read jimk’s post as committing to an area with plane tix and hotel reservations the season before.

It’s not a huge gamble but we’ve seen dry seasons in recent years (Tahoe, Utah).


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

Not so much plane tix and hotels, but more lift ticket strategy; such as will I be using a megapass,, liftopia, four-packs, etc. Maybe I'm weird to plan trips that cost hundreds or thousands in travel expenses by starting with the cost of tix??? I have talked with folks who do last minute trips and pay full for tix, but use hotel or airline points to get most other costs low or free and they do very well on overall costs that way.

 

[slatham]

https://www.aspendailynews.com/opin...cle_ecc7d43e-46cf-11e9-9f75-ab6cabb0ebf3.html

 

[abc]

Maybe I'm weird to plan trips that cost hundreds or thousands in travel expenses by starting with the cost of tix???

It isn't weird. The per day cost of lift ticket, hotel and car rental are all in the same level. So any obvious saving in one category frees up money to splurge on the other.

I have talked with folks who do last minute trips and pay full for tix, but use hotel or airline points to get most other costs low or free and they do very well on overall costs that way.

That would explain why people using hotel/airline points can afford to splurge on lift tickets.

Also I said I maybe the target of Alterra, vacationer who wants the price break of advanced purchase with still the freedom to chase snow. My actual usage of the pass doesn't exactly fit that pattern. Instead of doing the same number of days at a destination of best snow, I actually try to use the pass for many more days! (as many as I can find time for, even at the expense of considerable additional travel cost)

I am part of the "crowd" making mountains a lot more busy!

 

[2planks2coasts]

Actually, Thunder Ridge is closer. And it does get plenty of beginners from NYC.

But like I said, most people don’t know about these feeder hills. Hunter, Stratton and Okemo are the ads you see in the subways and buses.

Don't forget Mt. Peter! We lost Tuxedo Ridge a couple seasons back unfortunately, but with Thunder Ridge, Campgaw, Mt. Peter, Mountain Creek, there's still a few spots to play near the city.