Article on "mega pass" being bad for the sport

[drjeff]

Just exactly how is that done? Chairlifts are designed for a specific capacity and have to pass load tests prior to use. Or is the implication that they've been running their lifts under capacity until now?

For whatever reason the resort desires, not all lifts operate at maximum capacity, and often that is based on how many chairs they have on the haul rope (especially with detachable lifts) or sometimes the speed at which the haul rope travels. Both options can effectively keep the numbers of chairs that load/unload per hour at a quantity below what the lift is capable of handling to attempt to limit downhill volume.

The simplest example of this that I can think of, is the Bluebird at Mount Snow. Those bubbles load every 9 seconds, so if there's an hour of continuous operation with full chairs, it will put 2400 people an hour at the Summit. The lift is capable of loading a chair every 6 seconds, which would put 3600 people an hour at the Summit if they ordered more chairs to allow for 6 second spacing. The haul rope would still operate at the same 1000 ft/min it does.

So yes, sometimes, they can add more chairs, thus reducing the spacing between the chairs and the time between loading/unloading, and still have the lift operate within its safety parameters and capability all with just some work to reprogram the loading/unloading mechanisms in a nut shell

 

[machski]

Just exactly how is that done? Chairlifts are designed for a specific capacity and have to pass load tests prior to use. Or is the implication that they've been running their lifts under capacity until now?

Happens a lot, resorts can save a few bucks by ordering less than a full complement of carriers for a brand new lift. Bretton Woods new Gondola will not have a full complement of cabins compared to the design capacity when it opens. Loon's North Peak Quad when built did not have a full complement of chairs (it does now) nor did the current Gondola when it opened (it does now as well). Another example in the East was the Six Pack at Ragged, it was originally ordered with half the carriers it could handle IIRC. I know they have added chairs there as well, not sure it is up to a full complement or not now.

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[Newpylong]

Of note, when you receive a lift profile from an engineer it has capacity (in PPH), speed, and # of carriers, etc. This is all fed into the HP of the motor(s) required, number of towers, their height and profile, diameter of haul rope, etc and so on. It is always designed at max capacity, and can be cut down as desired. A load test is required whenever a capacity change is made.

 

[ThinkSnow]

Of note, when you receive a lift profile from an engineer it has capacity (in PPH), speed, and # of carriers, etc. This is all fed into the HP of the motor(s) required, number of towers, their height and profile, diameter of haul rope, etc and so on. It is always designed at max capacity, and can be cut down as desired. A load test is required whenever a capacity change is made.

Exactly, so it will be interesting to see if the additional load testing happens, or if that article was just a bunch of crap.

 

[BenedictGomez]

For whatever reason the resort desires, not all lifts operate at maximum capacity

Or you can be like Jay Peak & operate your aerial tram for more than 50 years beyond its' rated safety capacity.

 

[thetrailboss]

Or you can be like Jay Peak & operate your aerial tram for more than 50 years beyond its' rated safety capacity.

?

I am pretty sure that all of the required safety upgrades have been made and it still is in operable condition. Granted, they did have some significant issues in the recent past that I think are resolved.

 

[machski]

?

I am pretty sure that all of the required safety upgrades have been made and it still is in operable condition. Granted, they did have some significant issues in the recent past that I think are resolved.

Yeah, it's called a 50 or 60 passenger box that is only allowed to carry what, 40 people at a time now?

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[thetrailboss]

Yeah, it's called a 50 or 60 passenger box that is only allowed to carry what, 40 people at a time now?

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So I recall that issue, but wasn't that resolved? Or was the issue that the weight limits when calculated way back when factored in people who were of a LIGHTER average weight now compared to our current average weight (due to lots of poutine or McDonald's, or whatever )

 

[Harvey]

Adding more chairs to the lifts will ensure that next season skiers complain because the trails are overcrowded too.

How is Aspen for crowded trails now?

 

[machski]

So I recall that issue, but wasn't that resolved? Or was the issue that the weight limits when calculated way back when factored in people who were of a LIGHTER average weight now compared to our current average weight (due to lots of poutine or McDonald's, or whatever )

It wound up that apparently as I recall, they forgot to calculate in the water tanks for the summit lodge on each tram. And something to do with the anchoring not being rated for the actual cabin weight. I'm not sure they ever redid the anchoring when they switched out cabins years ago. The control systems are all new and up to standards now.

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[thetrailboss]

It wound up that apparently as I recall, they forgot to calculate in the water tanks for the summit lodge on each tram. And something to do with the anchoring not being rated for the actual cabin weight. I'm not sure they ever redid the anchoring when they switched out cabins years ago. The control systems are all new and up to standards now.

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I think that the anchoring was fixed a few years ago....

 

[catskillman]

Actually, Thunder Ridge is closer. And it does get plenty of beginners from NYC.

But like I said, most people don’t know about these feeder hills. Hunter, Stratton and Okemo are the ads you see in the subways and buses.

now they can go learn indoors in NJ at American Dream!!

 

[BenedictGomez]

?

I am pretty sure that all of the required safety upgrades have been made and it still is in operable condition.

Now, yes.

I'm talking about the 50 consecutive years (which ended recently) that they were (apparently unwittingly) operating the tram beyond its' stated safety weight limit.

 

[fbrissette]

Now, yes.

I'm talking about the 50 consecutive years (which ended recently) that they were (apparently unwittingly) operating the tram beyond its' stated safety weight limit.

Good thing these are designed with safety factors...

 

[thetrailboss]

Now, yes.

I'm talking about the 50 consecutive years (which ended recently) that they were (apparently unwittingly) operating the tram beyond its' stated safety weight limit.

Sounds like they were as good at engineering as they were at managing money.

 

[thetrailboss]

https://www.postindependent.com/new...ass-holders-quit-blaming-them-for-lift-lines/

 

[thetrailboss]

Now, yes.

I'm talking about the 50 consecutive years (which ended recently) that they were (apparently unwittingly) operating the tram beyond its' stated safety weight limit.

And speaking of Jay........

https://jaypeakresort.com/resort/blog-updates/nuts-bolts

 

[BenedictGomez]

One thing that never seems to get mentioned in this discussion when CEOs etc... are "defending" IKON & EPIC in terms of it supposedly not causing crowding, is the fact that both products are still ramping. In IKON's case, the YoY growth is impressive as it's a less mature product.

In other words, if you're an IKON mountain and you thought it was bad in 2018-2019, it's only going to get worse assuming the snow years are somewhat similar.

 

[deadheadskier]

It'll be interesting to see how this year pans out. Last year was unique in that virtually everywhere in the country had above average to exceptional winter weather. Well maybe not the Mid Atlantic. But New England, Colorado, Utah, California, the PNW and Upper Rockies all seemed to do well. The economy is also quite good.

The sport as I understand it is still pretty flat from a participation standpoint.

Epic might actually reduce crowds slightly in the MWV. Typical valley skiers from metro Boston might slide some of their business over to Sunapee and Okemo. I can only hope.

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[thetrailboss]

Well now....

https://www.sltrib.com/news/environ...muqoVXjx1qxx5yHHwkrI6AR9HBTReWGRqRZpNrQnfpPmI