Article on "mega pass" being bad for the sport

[abc]

And guess what? Folks who pay to park are going to make damn sure that they ski every minute because folks here are frugal at best but mainly cheap. So the lot will not turnover.

Not if they paid for the whole season.

Question is will there be sufficient parking for those choosing to pay for the season?

 

[AdironRider]

So good to see that Mr. KIA is back (know-it-all).

A few comments. First, way to go on the generalizations there as to cost. A lot of folks don't buy the full Ikon, but the entry-level pass. It is (was) cheaper than that. And those kiddos were free BTW for renewals, which were most folks. Small detail. And, as said, you have no idea how folks live or what choices they make.

Second, you clearly can't read because SEVERAL folks here have already said that "take the bus" is not a feasible option because they are already full. You even said it twice. That also goes to the point being made that the $$$ are NOT going to more busses but to Alterra's bottom line.

Third, the "free alternatives" doesn't really work because this change was made AFTER folks bought passes. Sure, they can use their days at other places, but that is capped.

So moral of the story is stay in your lane. :roll:

Right, a bunch of frugal Mormons are spending thousands on skiing then bitching about 5-20 bucks to park.

I don't disagree Utah isn't filled with people that one would consider cheap, but those people aren't skiers to begin with.

I hate Ikon just as much as the next guy, exclusively due to the crowding it brings, but a ski resort charging to park is not new nor is it going to change much, outside of opening up spots for Joe Doctor and his buddy Dave Lawyer.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I hate Ikon just as much as the next guy, exclusively due to the crowding it brings

Curious if given your role you've seen data proving the above?

Because, while is seems entirely logical to the point of obviousness, pretty much every IKON (and EPIC) ski area in Baghdad Bob fashion claim what you say above is entirely false.

 

[AdironRider]

Final number was an 80,600 skier visit increase to Jackson last year. 715k total.

 

[urungus]

Final number was an 80,600 skier visit increase to Jackson last year. 715k total.

Were they open the same number of days in both seasons ?

 

[AdironRider]

Were they open the same number of days in both seasons ?

Yep. Jackson consistently is only open from Thanksgiving to the first week of April, regardless of conditions.

 

[Glenn]

Well now....

https://www.sltrib.com/news/environ...muqoVXjx1qxx5yHHwkrI6AR9HBTReWGRqRZpNrQnfpPmI

That's an interesting take. Yes, could alleviate congestion. But it could also add more fuel to the "This sport it too expensive fire." Seems that more people are leaving the sport vs. joining it.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Final number was an 80,600 skier visit increase to Jackson last year. 715k total.

So, a 12.7% increase YoY.

What's interesting is apparently the year before was also a record year at Jackson Hole at 634,500 according to this article, and that's pre-IKON. So even without IKON, for whatever reason(s), it seems Jackson Hole was already getting more popular.

https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news...cle_74e0e79c-ed83-5a4f-b5b6-408b365126b0.html

 

[jaytrem]

What's interesting is apparently the year before was also a record year at Jackson Hole at 634,500 according to this article, and that's pre-IKON. So even without IKON, for whatever reason(s), it seems Jackson Hole was already getting more popular.

The way I look at is they haven't been building all those fancy new lifts with no intention of attracting more visitors. No doubt Ikon helped kick up the numbers even quicker though.

 

[AdironRider]

So, a 12.7% increase YoY.

What's interesting is apparently the year before was also a record year at Jackson Hole at 634,500 according to this article, and that's pre-IKON. So even without IKON, for whatever reason(s), it seems Jackson Hole was already getting more popular.

https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news...cle_74e0e79c-ed83-5a4f-b5b6-408b365126b0.html

The previous year saw Colorado, California and Utah all have well below average snow years. Jackson may not beat Utah most of the time, but we are remarkably consistent and drew large increases from that.

However, last year literally everyone had banner years, the only variance was Ikon.

Upgrading the Casper lift and adding Teton did not drive hundreds of thousands of people to show up here, mountain collective and Ikon have.

 

[JimG.]

Curious if given your role you've seen data proving the above?

Because, while is seems entirely logical to the point of obviousness, pretty much every IKON (and EPIC) ski area in Baghdad Bob fashion claim what you say above is entirely false.

Even Killington got unreasonably crowded on weekends last season because of the Ikon connection. As opposed to being just crowded.

I wonder what the critical mass of eastern resorts leaving these types of passes would be to make offering them in the east unprofitable.

 

[jaytrem]

Upgrading the Casper lift and adding Teton did not drive hundreds of thousands of people to show up here, mountain collective and Ikon have.

You know you're spoiled with new lifts when you don't even mention a gondola. Summer visit way up too, Ikon/Mountain Collective the cause???

https://irma.nps.gov/Stats/SSRSRepo...n Graph (1904 - Last Calendar Year)?Park=YELL

https://irma.nps.gov/Stats/SSRSRepo...n Graph (1904 - Last Calendar Year)?Park=GRTE

Though something seems odd with the Grand Teton stats, why the peak in the late 70's then the sudden drop? Changed their way of counting maybe?

At any rate it seems the word is out.

 

[machski]

Even Killington got unreasonably crowded on weekends last season because of the Ikon connection. As opposed to being just crowded.

I wonder what the critical mass of eastern resorts leaving these types of passes would be to make offering them in the east unprofitable.

Yeah, non of Killington's lift improvements or on hill tunnels drove any curiosity at all to check it out. I seriously doubt a capped Ikon product drove too many added souls to K over the previous Max Pass drive.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[JimG.]

Yeah, non of Killington's lift improvements or on hill tunnels drove any curiosity at all to check it out. I seriously doubt a capped Ikon product drove too many added souls to K over the previous Max Pass drive.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app

Forgot the Max pass...as a mostly weekday skier now it is hard to gauge weekend crowds but a few last season were out of control if you chose your terrain unwisely.

 

[abc]

Max was never really popular as it’s limited days unless you already got a “real” season pass on one of the mountains. And even then, it’s an upgrade that cost extra.

(It works for a few of us “drifters” who can make do by stitching together the various 5 days from different mountains)

I don’t recall bumping into herds of MAX pass people on the mountain. In fact, the year I had it, which was the last year before Ikon, everyone I ran into on mountain was still surprised to hear about it for the first time!

Ikon has the advertising machine that Max did not.

 

[machski]

Max was never really popular as it’s limited days unless you already got a “real” season pass on one of the mountains. And even then, it’s an upgrade that cost extra.

(It works for a few of us “drifters” who can make do by stitching together the various 5 days from different mountains)

I don’t recall bumping into herds of MAX pass people on the mountain. In fact, the year I had it, which was the last year before Ikon, everyone I ran into on mountain was still surprised to hear about it for the first time!

Ikon has the advertising machine that Max did not.

True on the advertising, but many skiers I know and had met knew about in the least or had the Max pass. I went to Mt. Bachelor two Aprils in a row on it and both times, many of us out skiing that late there were Max pass holders from out East. There was definitely added skiers from it.

That said, we have Ikon now and it dropped on arguably the best season for almost all regions of the country in years if not ever (rarely does the pacific, rockies and Northeast enjoy the seasons they did all in the same year). In my mind, that makes comparisons to prior Ikon years tough, especially just with a visual gauge. Add to it, most of the Rockies outside of Big Sky and Jackson had miserable ski seasons the year prior, the water gets cloudier. Now, no doubt Ikon has very visual marketing. It doesn't change the fact that one only gets 5 or 7 days at Killington, Sugarbush or the Boyne's. So Ikon alone isn't driving crazy weekends, all weekends. The big weekends JimG refered to at K were likely more related to weather for the weekend and immediately prior than just an Ikon effect.

Sent from my SM-T830 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[Harvey]

Too bad Snowbird beat them....

https://www.snowbird.com/ride/

Why is that bad?

 

[BenedictGomez]

If I was going to take a WAG I'd say IKON is going to continue to ramp & bite into EPIC far more than Wall Street analysts currently seem to believe.

 

[thetrailboss]

https://www.aspentimes.com/news/loc...-pass-to-overcrowd-ski-resorts-such-as-aspen/

Bump. Alterra seems to think that they will "adjust" if resorts get crowded. Or as they did here in Utah, charge for parking at Solitude (the only unlimited option for Ikon skiers) and dump the crowds on the other areas. Classy.

 

[BenedictGomez]

You cannot claim to be 100% certain the "crowding" was solely a fluke from a big snow season, while moments later saying you'll be monitoring future years to see if the crowding's still a problem.

Anyone see the cognitive dissonance there?

If the "crowding" truly was from the above average snow season & not due to IKON or EPIC, then your "crowding" should quickly disappear in either an average or a below average snow season.