Article on "mega pass" being bad for the sport

[jimk]

If I was going to take a WAG I'd say IKON is going to continue to ramp & bite into EPIC far more than Wall Street analysts currently seem to believe.

Supposedly one of the reasons Arapahoe Basin ended their arrangement with Vail and the EpicPass was so they could control the guest experience and crowds. Of course, then they promptly joined IKON:flag:

It will be interesting to see if crowds go up or down at A-Basin this season.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

basin went from being unlimited on epic to being a 5/7 on ikon. that makes a big difference

 

[thetrailboss]

The reality of the situation is that the immediate future for skiing is less about buying a pass to a single mountain, let alone buying a day ticket, and instead getting a discounted multi-mountain pass. This is really back to the future. Anyone else here remember the "All East" Pass from ASC? That started out as a premium product but when ASC hit financial issues it became very similar to the Epic Pass in that it was a discounted product that led to crowded slopes.

I recently listened to Vail's podcast on the rise of Epic and the story was pretty interesting. It used to be a Colorado locals deal that was only available in-person and for sale one or two weekends a year. Then they decided to expand it to online and open to everyone. Then it became what it is today.

ASC, of course, went under so we will never know what "would" have happened had the "All East" pass continued to exist.

 

[abc]

basin went from being unlimited on epic to being a 5/7 on ikon. that makes a big difference

??

 

[jaytrem]

??

Ikon only gets your 5 or 7 days at A-basin depending on which pass you purchased.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

Jim said basin left epic bc of crowds, but then asked why move to ikon.

I replied that epic was unlimited days, and ikon is limited days, and that will have a positive impact on parking and crowding, as less denverites will own an unlimited pass to a-basin than in the past few years

 

[thetrailboss]

Ikon only gets your 5 or 7 days at A-basin depending on which pass you purchased.

Going from unlimited to 5/7 days may make a difference. But I can tell you that here in SLC 5-7 limits mean nothing and crowding is an issue. Why would you pay $1,000 for a Snowbird Pass when you can pay the same and get 15 or 21 days combined at Alta/Snowbird, Brighton, and Deer Valley before you even have to set foot at Solitude? A lot of folks think that the independent resorts here gave the store away to the Ikon Pass. Us passholders got nothing in return.

 

[abc]

Jim said basin left epic bc of crowds, but then asked why move to ikon.

I replied that epic was unlimited days, and ikon is limited days, and that will have a positive impact on parking and crowding, as less denverites will own an unlimited pass to a-basin than in the past few years

Ok, I get that's what they THINK.

Whether that'll bear out in reality is still to be seen.

From what I heard, a good portion of Epic pass holders only ski less than 10 days anyway. If so, the 5/7 day limit may not make much of a difference.

On the other hand, the people who're skiing at A-basin maybe the "other" portion of pass holders who ski a lot more than 10 days. If that's the case, it WILL make a big difference.

(The monkey wrench for this season, a lot of the skiers who ski Basin more than 5/7 days already bought AB standalone pass BEFORE the announcement of AB joining IKON. So they will be there on top of the 5/7 day from the IKON skiers. Next season, we'll get to see if many of those AB "regulars" still buy their standalone pass, or just use the 5/7 days on IKON)

 

[kingslug]

We have found that the price pf the plane ticket there has gone through the roof..thats the worst part of this. Prices hit $1000.00 when its good out there. That is insane. I used to just hop on a plane when its dumped..spend 4 days there and head home. Now we make it a 7 day trip and base out of PC..then ski Alta/Bird mid week. A lot of people complain about PC but with 7300 acres I can find interesting terrain and not deal with long lines. Things have changed..so we have changed. Unless BCC and LCC come up with a better plan, its going to get worse..and charging for parking will not help it enough if at all. I've been stuck on the road up to Alta in a storm and its downright scary.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Unless BCC and LCC come up with a better plan, its going to get worse..and charging for parking will not help it enough if at all. I've been stuck on the road up to Alta in a storm and its downright scary.

Build two gondola lines with one terminus between LCC & BCC with a large parking lot.

Depending upon whether you're going to Snowbird (at best) or Brighton (at worst), you're probably looking at something like 17 to 25 minutes with a guesstimated 28 km/h speed. Note, those aerial times are quite comparable to the landspeed times, so it's not a time burden.

There are two problems with the above, but neither is entirely insurmountable:

1) It's very expensive, but resorts can chip in, taxpayers can chip in, and you can charge a modest $2 per ride.
2) Eco extremists

 

[thetrailboss]

Build two gondola lines with one terminus between LCC & BCC with a large parking lot.

Depending upon whether you're going to Snowbird (at best) or Brighton (at worst), you're probably looking at something like 17 to 25 minutes with a guesstimated 28 km/h speed. Note, those aerial times are quite comparable to the landspeed times, so it's not a time burden.

There are two problems with the above, but neither is entirely insurmountable:

1) It's very expensive, but resorts can chip in, taxpayers can chip in, and you can charge a modest $2 per ride.
2) Eco extremists

Ultra fiscally conservative state + environmentalists = no change with what we have.

 

[kingslug]

Now I wonder if it will eventually drive people away from LCC/BCC. Jackson is easier to get to as well as PC/Canyons. I like Colorado but getting stuck at the airport and the hairy drives over mountain passes keeps me from there. I could probably ski JH forever and not get bored. And I didn't find the crowding too insane last year and it dumped the whole week. Then there is always BC if you really want to get away from it all. Revelstoke was..rather uncrowded when I was there and skied Pow all week.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Ultra fiscally conservative state + environmentalists = no change with what we have.

If the population forecast for doubling in 20 years is accurate, that's a massive problem. Even without better people-moving strategies, I wonder if the front 4 ski areas will need to enforce maximum capacity limits & turn people away.

 

[kingslug]

Works for Powder Mountain...2000 and thats it.

 

[thetrailboss]

Now I wonder if it will eventually drive people away from LCC/BCC. Jackson is easier to get to as well as PC/Canyons. I like Colorado but getting stuck at the airport and the hairy drives over mountain passes keeps me from there. I could probably ski JH forever and not get bored. And I didn't find the crowding too insane last year and it dumped the whole week. Then there is always BC if you really want to get away from it all. Revelstoke was..rather uncrowded when I was there and skied Pow all week.

The only issue is that anything in Jackson (lodging, food, etc.) is expensive as hell.

 

[thetrailboss]

If the population forecast for doubling in 20 years is accurate, that's a massive problem. Even without better people-moving strategies, I wonder if the front 4 ski areas will need to enforce maximum capacity limits & turn people away.

Maximum limits...rrriiiggghhhtt. Snowbird would never do that (actually they did on the 4th of July this year to their credit).

 

[Edd]

We have found that the price pf the plane ticket there has gone through the roof..thats the worst part of this. Prices hit $1000.00 when its good out there. That is insane.

Uh, yeah, that is. I personally prefer CO, Tahoe, and BC to UT for a variety of reasons that are a matter of opinion. Expensive flights would keep me away from there for good.

 

[abc]

The only issue is that anything in Jackson (lodging, food, etc.) is expensive as hell.

It’s only “expensive” compared to SLC.

Compared to Colorado (Summit county, never mind Vail/Aspen), Jackson is “cheap”!

 

[thetrailboss]

It’s only “expensive” compared to SLC.

Compared to Colorado (Summit county, never mind Vail/Aspen), Jackson is “cheap”!

It's relative, sure.

 

[kingslug]

Well..this sport of ours ain't cheap. Not if you want to ski the world. I don't care about amenities..don't mind a 2 star hotel and boring food..I just care about the skiing...the Mrs though ..has something to say about that.
I used to stay in the extended stay hotel in Union park when it was 40 bucks a night...your room might have had a chalk outline in it but whatever..lived on Cliff Bars and 7 Eleven..and the skiing was great and uncrowded...things have changed a bit now..