Ascutney Said to be in Financial Turmoil

[billski]

Everything I've seen and heard indicated the number of visits to Ascutney was abysmally small. Any impact on market dispersion by and large has already occurred, save for the captive condo market.

We stayed at the hotel for 2 and 3 day periods when the kids were young. There was the restaurant in the hotel and a little snack/pizza place. After 2 days were were eating the same things over and over again, since we don't cook for short stays like that.

 

[mister moose]

Sunapee is 30 miles. I doubt the typical Ascutney skier is going to shell out $82.00 to ski Killington or Okemo.

Perhaps, but you have the Boston I-93 driver mindset. As a lifetime CT I-91 driver, Sunapee isn't even on my radar screen. Never been there. Why go 30 miles the wrong way towards less snow when you can go to Magic, Bromley, or a bigger mountain? I'd be buying K55 tickets or something similar if I was a weekend skier. The appeal to us for Ascutney was it was under 2 hours and day tripable. Sunapee adds another half hour and gets you nothing extra for the drive. For CT skiers, it's Vermont for the weekend or the northern berkshires for the day. Mt Snow and Ascutney are right on the 2 hour mark, and are tolerable for day trips, but not frequently.

The real deal for Ascutney property owners is the Sunapee/Okemo pass for 1,059 or the blackout pass that adds Stratton for 845. They are central to Okemo and Sunapee, and can get both on one pass. If they can afford a condo, they can likely afford a pass.

Ascutney day tickets last year were $62.

 

[riverc0il]

mondeo is spot on. Lost ski areas are easy to romanticize. But there are only so many skier visits to go around. Its easy for us to sit around and say it sucks that Ascutney is going under. But how many of us have skied Ascutney? And out of that very limited number of folks, how many would have ever gone back if they had stayed open? I don't think its buying into the capitalistic thing too much to look at this from a basic economic stand point. It sucks for those that enjoyed Ascutney and it really sucks for the property owners and it sucks for anyone that might have potentially enjoyed skiing there in the future. But will skier visits that would have gone to Ascutney help other areas? Absolutely. Could even help Magic if a family that used to ski Ascutney is looking to try a different ski area in the lower half of VT.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

Perhaps, but you have the Boston I-93 driver mindset. As a lifetime CT I-91 driver, Sunapee isn't even on my radar screen. Never been there. Why go 30 miles the wrong way towards less snow when you can go to Magic, Bromley, or a bigger mountain? I'd be buying K55 tickets or something similar if I was a weekend skier. The appeal to us for Ascutney was it was under 2 hours and day tripable. Sunapee adds another half hour and gets you nothing extra for the drive. For CT skiers, it's Vermont for the weekend or the northern berkshires for the day. Mt Snow and Ascutney are right on the 2 hour mark, and are tolerable for day trips, but not frequently.

The real deal for Ascutney property owners is the Sunapee/Okemo pass for 1,059 or the blackout pass that adds Stratton for 845. They are central to Okemo and Sunapee, and can get both on one pass. If they can afford a condo, they can likely afford a pass.

Ascutney day tickets last year were $62.

I honestly doubt that Ascutney skiers actually use I-91 or I-93. The people that go to Ascutney are more likely to use Route 11, 131, 5, 12a and 120. This would mean they would probably opt for Okemo or Sunapee as an alternative. I doubt many people drive from Ct, Western Mass, NY to go to Ascutney. I would guess that the people that typically go to Ascutney are from Claremont, Windsor, Weathersfield, Charleston, etc. And with that I doubt the numbers that Ascutney got would amount to any significant surge at any of the nearby ski areas.

 

[billski]

last time I was there, an oral surgeon's meeting was taking place. When they departed I went into the meeting room and they had left behind all their gum disease photo enlargements. Lost my appetite immediately. Dr. Jeff I'm sure knows more, but you bring your family, kick them out onto the slopes and stay stuck inside all day looking at pretty pictures.

My crocodile tears about Ascutney, Maple Valley, Tenny and the list goes on, is that once you lose a mountain, it's hard to get it back again due to the enviromental pressures imposed on new developments. I understand the economics, but I really loath the day that most lift-served areas become a homogeneous set of predictable, safe, reliable boring slopes.
Put some rocks back on the trail, please. Guess I'll go cut some more woods lines....

I'll bet Ascutney's customers were a hodge podge of people from all over the place. Probably hard to find a target market, other than the real estate owners. I guess they figured if they can't do it with skiers.boarders, they will do it with golfers. I went there with my family because it was out of the way, I would not have to worry about the kids getting brain trauma from an OOC Yahoo. Our objective was to burn out the kids and get a nice, quiet night's sleep

 

[Geoff]

Perhaps, but you have the Boston I-93 driver mindset. As a lifetime CT I-91 driver, Sunapee isn't even on my radar screen. Never been there.

So tell us about all your Ascutney days.

 

[mister moose]

I honestly doubt that Ascutney skiers actually use I-91 or I-93. The people that go to Ascutney are more likely to use Route 11, 131, 5, 12a and 120. This would mean they would probably opt for Okemo or Sunapee as an alternative. I doubt many people drive from Ct, Western Mass, NY to go to Ascutney. I would guess that the people that typically go to Ascutney are from Claremont, Windsor, Weathersfield, Charleston, etc. And with that I doubt the numbers that Ascutney got would amount to any significant surge at any of the nearby ski areas.

You're wrong. All of the I-91 corridor from New Haven to Hartford, Springfield and up to Greenfield Mass is prime Ascutney market as it is so convenient. They marketed into this area for years. That's who bought condos there, certainly not someone who lived 10 minutes away in Windsor.

Ascutney has a much larger critical mass in location and infrastructure than Maple Valley, Hogback, Mt Tom, or Brodie ever had. I'm not writing it off yet.

So tell us about all your Ascutney days.

Not sure what you're asking. Family trips that included Ascutney, several high school trips, trips including Ascutney post college. Ascutney can feel a little like Burke on a good snow day, narrow winding old style trails, low crowds, narrow trail pod for the vertical compared to layouts like Mt Snow and Stratton. Far less snow and less reliable snow that the greens. Perfect for the family that feels like they got run down like a dog at some nearby big resort and don't care about a shorter season.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

You're wrong. All of the I-91 corridor from New Haven to Hartford, Springfield and up to Greenfield Mass is prime Ascutney market as it is so convenient. They marketed into this area for years. That's who bought condos there, certainly not someone who lived 10 minutes away in Windsor.

Ascutney has a much larger critical mass in location and infrastructure than Maple Valley, Hogback, Mt Tom, or Brodie ever had. I'm not writing it off yet.



Not sure what you're asking. Family trips that included Ascutney, several high school trips, trips including Ascutney post college. Ascutney can feel a little like Burke on a good snow day, narrow winding old style trails, low crowds, narrow trail pod for the vertical compared to layouts like Mt Snow and Stratton. Far less snow and less reliable snow that the greens. Perfect for the family that feels like they got run down like a dog at some nearby big resort and don't care about a shorter season.

Not talking about Condo owners (who I feel bad for), which last I checked were not in any great numbers. When was the last condo built and how many? I am talking about day skiers. Perhaps in the past when ski areas were just that ski areas Ascutney grabed some of the 91 traffic, but I would guess most pass right by it for Okemo, Killington, or not make it that far north and hit up Stratton and Mt. Snow nowadays.

 

[abc]

Perhaps in the past when ski areas were just that ski areas Ascutney grabed some of the 91 traffic, but I would guess most pass right by it for Okemo, Killington, or not make it that far north and hit up Stratton and Mt. Snow nowadays.

I don't think that assumption hold true.

Not every skier are families. Not every skiing trip involves hot tube and shopping in a "village". Random talks with people in the office reveals quite a few of them do ski for the sake of skiing!

What you're confusing is the revenue generation with skier visit. There're a lot of skier who just buy a ticket and ski (and maybe buy lunch). Families who stay over for the whole weekend generates more revenue for the mountain so they're the more valuable target market. That's not to say they're even the majority of skier visits.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

I don't think that assumption hold true.

Not every skier are families. Not every skiing trip involves hot tube and shopping in a "village". Random talks with people in the office reveals quite a few of them do ski for the sake of skiing!

What you're confusing is the revenue generation with skier visit. There're a lot of skier who just buy a ticket and ski (and maybe buy lunch). Families who stay over for the whole weekend generates more revenue for the mountain so they're the more valuable target market. That's not to say they're even the majority of skier visits.

No not every skier is a family, no they don't all look for hot tubs and shopping in villages, but they do look for snow, lifts running, etc, of which Ascutney has done a very poor job doing, especially for an area that boasts only 150-180 inches of snow a year, which IMO is pushing it. Also don't talk to me about people who ski/ride for the sake of skiing or riding, becuase I am one of them. I have never considered Ascutney in the past 10 years of living in the UV and the last 2 years living 15 minutes away from the mountain. I love to ride for the sake of riding and that is why I go to Killington, because I like snow natural or otherwise, plus they have a very reasonable blackout pass. I believe Ascutney was 62 dollars last year, Killington and many others were 82 dollars. I don't think the quality of surface/lifts/terrain is worth saving the extra 20 bucks. Lets not forget, nobody really has the facts, it's just my opinion.

Just because Killington, Okemo, Stratton, Mt Snow offer the extras doesn't mean they don't offer a very good product for a true skier or rider.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

You're wrong. All of the I-91 corridor from New Haven to Hartford, Springfield and up to Greenfield Mass is prime Ascutney market as it is so convenient. They marketed into this area for years. That's who bought condos there, certainly not someone who lived 10 minutes away in Windsor.

Ascutney has a much larger critical mass in location and infrastructure than Maple Valley, Hogback, Mt Tom, or Brodie ever had. I'm not writing it off yet.

Perhaps I a missing something, but what does having a prime market have to do with not being able to utilize it? Yes Ascutney does have a area where they could market themselves, but they don't or they try to, but people know what lies behind that beautiful natural billboard that looks down over 91....and that is a poorly run mountain. Were not talking about what they could be, were talking about what they are and that is a bankrupt, nelsap'd ski resort with potential.

What were the skier visits at Ascutney last year?

 

[threecy]

You're wrong. All of the I-91 corridor from New Haven to Hartford, Springfield and up to Greenfield Mass is prime Ascutney market as it is so convenient. They marketed into this area for years. That's who bought condos there, certainly not someone who lived 10 minutes away in Windsor.

Ascutney has a much larger critical mass in location and infrastructure than Maple Valley, Hogback, Mt Tom, or Brodie ever had. I'm not writing it off yet.

Huh? How many people do you think Ascutney successfully pulled out of the I-91 corridor in Connecticut and Massachusetts? If they were so successful with their years of marketing there that you suggest, why have they closed twice in the last two decades?


I'd also suggest that the last year Ascutney, Brodie, and Mt Tom all operated, Mt. Tom and Brodie had more skiing infrastructure and skier visits than Ascutney.

 

[Geoff]

Not sure what you're asking. Family trips that included Ascutney, several high school trips, trips including Ascutney post college. Ascutney can feel a little like Burke on a good snow day, narrow winding old style trails, low crowds, narrow trail pod for the vertical compared to layouts like Mt Snow and Stratton. Far less snow and less reliable snow that the greens. Perfect for the family that feels like they got run down like a dog at some nearby big resort and don't care about a shorter season.

I was asking whether Ascutney was visible from the metro-Hartford area. I've only ever heard descriptions of it from race parents when they had to go there for events and it wasn't very flattering. I'm trying to understand if it has something compelling enough that somebody from Hartford would go there. Your answer is clearly 'yes'. Vermont doesn't have a heck of a lot of places left where you don't worry that your munchkin will get run down like a dog on a midwinter Saturday.

 

[Mapnut]

I'm another I-91 skier who has driven past Ascutney many times and never stopped. I knew its reputation for good terrain, but also for low snowfall, poor snowmaking and poor conditions.

 

[riverc0il]

Interesting fact: Ascutney is the second closest Vermont ski area from where I live currently and third closest to where I lived 3-5 years ago and I never made it down there. But I regularly drive twice as far to ski other mountains in VT.

 

[whitemtn27]

I'm in the same boat. Ascutney is less than a half hour difference for me from Mt Snow/Stratton/Bromley/Magic and quite a bit less drive time than Killington.

But I've bought day tickets at those other 5 places regularly over the years, and never been to Ascutney.

Lay that one on the snowmaking budget, I guess. Every time I thought of trying the place out, I read a bunch of TRs about awful conditions. And nobody in the marketing department succeeded at convincing me to give them a shot anyway.

 

[rocojerry]

Interesting fact: Ascutney is the second closest Vermont ski area from where I live currently and third closest to where I lived 3-5 years ago and I never made it down there. But I regularly drive twice as far to ski other mountains in VT.

hike it steve, it's your kind of mountain.... terrain is unlike any in VT/NH/Maine. This is the year to do it before it gets too overgrown.



From wikipedia:
Mount Ascutney is part of the White Mountain plutonic-volcanic series of igneous rocks. These rocks intruded from Triassic to Cretaceous time in southern Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont with the relatively young Ascutney pluton intruding at ~122 MA (K/Ar date on Biotite). The Ascutney pluton is about 8 km x 4 km in map area and intrudes Precambrian basement gneisses of the Chester dome and overlying Paleozoic metasedimentary rocks. The pluton emplacement is probably related to the formation of transform faults and/or fracture zones during (failed) Mesozoic rifting[2][3]. The petrology of the pluton consists of three socks which are gabbro-diortie, syenite and granite. There is also a partial ring dike and number of other dikes in the area[4].

 

[mlctvt]

I honestly doubt that Ascutney skiers actually use I-91 or I-93. The people that go to Ascutney are more likely to use Route 11, 131, 5, 12a and 120. This would mean they would probably opt for Okemo or Sunapee as an alternative. I doubt many people drive from Ct, Western Mass, NY to go to Ascutney. I would guess that the people that typically go to Ascutney are from Claremont, Windsor, Weathersfield, Charleston, etc. And with that I doubt the numbers that Ascutney got would amount to any significant surge at any of the nearby ski areas.

I know many people who live in CT who skied Ascutney because of the CT Ski council days. Although several who went last year or the year before told me they'd never go back due to the horrible conditions.
I personally know over a dozen people who really enjoy the ski council days because they ski a bunch of different mountains throughout the year at great prices.
The only reason I'm not a member is I own a place at Mount Snow.

 

[riverc0il]

hike it steve, it's your kind of mountain.... terrain is unlike any in VT/NH/Maine. This is the year to do it before it gets too overgrown.

That is the plan. If they get enough snow.... which is what generally kept me away in the past.

 

[abc]

I'm in the same boat. Ascutney is less than a half hour difference for me from Mt Snow/Stratton/Bromley/Magic and quite a bit less drive time than Killington.

But I've bought day tickets at those other 5 places regularly over the years, and never been to Ascutney.

Lay that one on the snowmaking budget, I guess. Every time I thought of trying the place out, I read a bunch of TRs about awful conditions. And nobody in the marketing department succeeded at convincing me to give them a shot anyway.

I've never skied Ascutney depsite driven by it a few times. But it's got nothing to do with the condition...

I've simply not heard of Ascutney until I signed up on alpinezone!

Further more, up to about 2 years ago, I count myself as one of those "family skiers". Even though I don't have a family that skis, I was nonetheless only interested in "big" mountains with a high trail counts.

It wasn't until 2 years ago I saw a deal at Pico and gave it a try. It changed my perception of "smaller" areas! Since then, I've begun a slowly but surely "tour" of all the smaller, perhaps less well-groomed but definitely un-crowded mounatains. Ascutney was on my list but sadly I never got around to it before it closes.

I KNOW I'm not the only one who have that preference. In fact, I've steered a few of my co-workers towards some of these smaller gems and got good feed back. What I see as a shame is, mountains don't seem to be able to survive without putting a huge army of skiers on limited trails so they run each other over 3 times! So as much as I wanted to ski in a less-crowded place, they're slowing being driven out of business.

Maybe lift-served skiing is just too expensive. Maybe I should just stick to x-c skiing!