Avalanche air bag save (video)

[Nick]

^Awesome post and fantastic info. Thanks for sharing!

There were several avi courses in the northeast last year. I think REI also offers one on Mt Washington. Someone here (can't recall) wrote a pretty long trip report about it. It sounded pretty sweet.

 

[fbrissette]

Airbags have been shown to improve survival stats in 95% of the cases where they were used.

AHM

Good post. However, I don't understand the number above. The Canadian review of airbags (previously cited) has the following stats upon a review of 43 well-documents incidents involving 92 individuals.
- survival rate was 56% for non airbag users;
- survival rate was 83% for users;

I'll take 83% over 56% any day, which means not using an airbag in dangerous terrain is dumb.

However, with 1 chance out of 6 of dying in an avalanche (with an air-bag), I would definitely prefer not being in an avalanche to begin with.

Nick, I'm all for airbags, but I'm clearly against the use of such videos to promote them. Actually, I would have no problems with such videos, as long as every sixth video shows a dead guy with an airbag being dug out from an avalanche.

Awareness and education is key. If you'e dumb enough to ski into a terrain trap, the airbag is unlikely to help.

 

[catskills]

1) I'll take 83% over 56% any day, which means not using an airbag in dangerous terrain is dumb.

2) Awareness and education is key. If you'e dumb enough to ski into a terrain trap, the airbag is unlikely to help.

I am in full agreement with your statement (2) above.

Your statement (1) above not so much. Personally I think it is dumb to be in dangerous terrain in the first place. Hey I guess that is just me.

 

[fbrissette]

Your statement (1) above not so much. Personally I think it is dumb to be in dangerous terrain in the first place. Hey I guess that is just me.

It depends on your definition of dangerous. Backcountry fun for good skiers is mostly between 30 and 40 degrees, which happens to be the range where avalanche risk is the highest. By definition all such slopes are potentially dangerous, even in low and moderate conditions.

Then there is 'stupid dangerous', like the guy in the video who likely skied down in 4 to 5 risk instead of staying home.

 

[MadMadWorld]

It depends on your definition of dangerous. Backcountry fun for good skiers is mostly between 30 and 40 degrees, which happens to be the range where avalanche risk is the highest. By definition all such slopes are potentially dangerous, even in low and moderate conditions.

Then there is 'stupid dangerous', like the guy in the video who likely skied down in 4 to 5 risk instead of staying home.

Degree of slope is just a very small piece in determining whether terrain is avalanche prone or not. Take for example Tucks. In the spring, there is little to no risk of avalanche danger in the bowl. However, if you ski that same terrain in the winter when it's wind loaded you will almost definitely trigger a slide in certain areas.

 

[fbrissette]

Degree of slope is just a very small piece in determining whether terrain is avalanche prone or not.

Of course, but that's an important piece of the puzzle. If you keep to 25 degree slopes, there is no need to worry about anything but the odd wet slide in the spring.

 

[MadMadWorld]

^Awesome post and fantastic info. Thanks for sharing!

There were several avi courses in the northeast last year. I think REI also offers one on Mt Washington. Someone here (can't recall) wrote a pretty long trip report about it. It sounded pretty sweet.

Level II courses are ALWAYS done on either Mt Washington or Katahdin. I can't remember where I did my Level I. REI does a pretty good job but if you want to focus more on the skiing aspects of the AIARE class I would recommend going through the Acadia Mountain Guide Climbing School.

 

[MadMadWorld]

I want to see the avalanche video where there are trees below, skier with NO air bag stops right before being pushed through the tree shredder by the avalanche. Replay with air bag the dude gets carried through the tree shredder by the avalanche and dies. Yeah that is the video I want to see. Reason I want to see that video is because people think they're friggin invincible because they have an avalanche air bag.

I don't presume to be an expert on avalanches but I am WMA First Responder and Level II certified and have many hours with AIARE instructors. I was under the impression that it ALWAYS better to stay on top of an avalanche. Riding the wave out under the snow can cause just as much trauma as staying on top and getting washed into some trees. The slide alone can cause massive internal damage - crushed organs, broken necks, and brain injury. If that doesn't kill you, hypoxia sure will. I think I will take my chances on top!

Avalanche air bags do have a down side in that you will get pushed down the mountain a farther distance than if you had no air bag. If there are trees below or a cliff the air bag potentially could result in more harm if victim got carried over a cliff or into the trees.

Well the scenario you are describing sounds like a terrain trap and is a dumb move in the first place. You should always have a way out if something goes wrong.

 

[AHM]

Avalanche education both local and away..................

I think taking an AIARE 1 course locally is a great idea. After an AIARE 1 course, if your thinking about taking a 2 course, it is not a bad idea to consider alternative areas to get a better understanding of snowpack elsewhere. My AIARE 2 was with the CO Mt School and was very very well done. Lodging is cheap at the CMS climbers hostel in Estes Park (25/night) and the skiing is 10 min away. Big day tours make the venue excellent with the classroom right out of the climbers hostel.

My AIARE 3 was based out of Silverton and provided again a look at the Continental snowpack which is one of the trickier snowpacks. Extensive learning in more challenging snowpacks really hammers home the concepts and layer ID. One issue with the icecoast snowpack is that it is often very homogeneous which can limit learnings. If a AIARE 2 course is in the plans, plan it around a ski trip and you'll get to practice the learnings right away which is a great way to hammer them home.