Balsams Grand Resort teams up with ski industry legend Les Otten

[EPB]

Lets just hope the economy can keep pace because this is unbelievable. Also makes me concerned that a successful Balsams means the end of Saddleback for good.

Makes me think....what is considered the newest "big" mountain? Sunday River? Looks like that one turned out OK

A massive Balsams buildout would definitely make Saddleback less viable.

To me, the issue with Saddleback is that the Berry guy who owns the place is completely delusional. He seems too proud proud to realize that he failed, and that his dreams of restraining land around the boundary for real estate development will 100% prohibit him from ever selling the resort.

How stupid would someone have to be to pay him to just own/operate the ski area with no potential real estate upside? The guy can't even keep the place operational is it is.

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[deadheadskier]

Agreed. I can understand not wanting to turn the place into Sunday River 2.0 with massive development and a desire to maintain the unique character of the place, but Saddleback needs a substantial increase in bed base to be viable. You need a core group of a couple thousand vacation home owners that will show up every weekend to keep the lights on.

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[granite]

The Balsams needs to re-open for historical reasons alone. It has always been, and will always be, a destination resort. It is a viable destination resort if properly managed. Coos County is a year round happening place, gaining more and more visitors every year, except for mud season. They need to make sure it's well connected to the snow mobile and ATV trails and welcome both. I imagine skiing trackless powder every run there if they ever did develop all that they want to.

 

[deadheadskier]

I disagree about the viability without major second home development. The old hotel operation lost money almost every year for the last few decades it was open. A buddy of mine was friends with the Tillotsons. He made all his money in the rubber industry. The Balsams was a hobby of Neil's and he was quite open about it's financial hardships. Ocean Properties who own the Wentworth, Sagamore and about 100 other hotels around the country took a pass on it because they didn't see it as financially viable.

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[ThinkSnow]

Perhaps Les Otten will tackle Saddleback after Balsams gets going?

 

[x10003q]

So who is going to back the bond???

 

[x10003q]

The Balsams needs to re-open for historical reasons alone. It has always been, and will always be, a destination resort. It is a viable destination resort if properly managed. Coos County is a year round happening place, gaining more and more visitors every year, except for mud season. They need to make sure it's well connected to the snow mobile and ATV trails and welcome both. I imagine skiing trackless powder every run there if they ever did develop all that they want to.

It was a destination resort when people traveled by train and before air conditioning existed. Those days are long gone.

 

[raisingarizona]

It was a destination resort when people traveled by train and before air conditioning existed. Those days are long gone.

Bigger than killington?

If this is done right they could probably make it successful.

What other attractions could separate them from other eastern resorts?

 

[snoseek]

Bigger than killington?

If this is done right they could probably make it successful.

What other attractions could separate them from other eastern resorts?

Much less rain.

 

[machski]

Bigger than killington?

If this is done right they could probably make it successful.

What other attractions could separate them from other eastern resorts?

The outdoor thermo hot baths. Obviously artificial as we do not have volcanic activity to support natural one's, but I know the baths are a key component to be completed before early buyers are triggered into actual payments on their unit shares.

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[raisingarizona]

Much less rain.

That’s a biggie

 

[machski]

That’s a biggie

Well, basically on the same level as what Jay Peak sees Rainwise. The difference between the two if the Balsams happens is the Balsams will have a snowmaking system that will allow for rapid recovery where as of now, Jay does not.

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[ThinkSnow]

In the summer, it has the Donald J Ross golf course.

https://rosssociety.org/resources/Documents/Ross_Course_List_Feb_2018_final_.pdf

 

[Do Work]

Hilarious to me that this is still getting kicked around. This albatross should be euthanized.

 

[JoeB-Z]

Well, basically on the same level as what Jay Peak sees Rainwise. The difference between the two if the Balsams happens is the Balsams will have a snowmaking system that will allow for rapid recovery where as of now, Jay does not.

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It is likely the Balsams snowmaking system will mostly be provided by the investor's tears.

 

[MG Skier]

Good Point on Jay Peaks recovery after rain.....I love it up there but I am cautious and constantly watching weather to make sure it is worth the ride up!

 

[mister moose]

Much less rain.

Less doesn't mean none. Many is the inside runner storm that produces rain well into Canada, frequently to Quebec.

They will be in a worse position to compete with a 4 hour flight to Denver for a week's skiing, not better given the further driving distance.

They won't attract the traffic if they are small, and they won't be able to cover the cost of a Killington size area either with the traffic willing to go there. Jay is a good barometer of that market, and they will compete for it, not add significantly to it.

Well, basically on the same level as what Jay Peak sees Rainwise. The difference between the two if the Balsams happens is the Balsams will have a snowmaking system that will allow for rapid recovery where as of now, Jay does not.

Jay doesn't make more snow because their balance sheet doesn't allow them too. How is The Balsams going to draw significantly more traffic than Jay does to pay for that?
​

I wouldn't be a investor.

 

[ThinkSnow]

They will be in a worse position to compete with a 4 hour flight to Denver for a week's skiing, not better given the further driving distance.

4 hour flight to Denver only if you're flying from Newark or Philly. Even JFK & Boston flights are approximately 5 hours non-stop. That doesn't include time to get too/from the airport, car rentals or transfers.

Driving to the Balsams from Boston is approximately 4 hours or under- depending on the route, door to door. Well under 4 from Burlington VT. For an area larger than Kmart with XC, snowshoeing and snowmobiling as well? They'd get the MA, NH & even NVT traffic, and not only those people who grew up as kids going there on family destination vacations, now wanting their kids to have the same experience.

 

[deadheadskier]

What traffic? Loon is the busiest resort in NH and only does about 330k visits a season.

To expand to the size they are talking about, the Balsams likely needs 500k skier visits a season to be viable. There's not a resort north of Killington pulling that kind of traffic. Stowe, Sugarbush, Smuggs, Sugarloaf, Jay; none of them do that kind of business despite having vastly superior terrain to what the Balsams will have.


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[Edd]

none of them do that kind of business despite having vastly superior terrain to what the Balsams will have.

They don’t need superior terrain. They need trails digestible to Joey and his family and a lot of it to support those high customer figures.