Balsams Grand Resort teams up with ski industry legend Les Otten

[x10003q]

From the front page Balsams internet site:

"The condominium has not yet been registered by the New Hampshire Consumer Protection and Antitrust Bureau of the Attorney General's Office, Department of Justice. Until such time as registration has been issued, only non-binding reservation agreements may be accepted." (my bolding)

So The Balsams has 500 non-binding reservations? What does that even mean? Why isn't the development registered with NH? What are they waiting for?

Balsams Ski Area Expansion – view from the NW

Visit the post for more.

thebalsamsresort.com

 

[EPB]

From the front page Balsams internet site:

"The condominium has not yet been registered by the New Hampshire Consumer Protection and Antitrust Bureau of the Attorney General's Office, Department of Justice. Until such time as registration has been issued, only non-binding reservation agreements may be accepted." (my bolding)

So The Balsams has 500 non-binding reservations? What does that even mean? Why isn't the development registered with NH? What are they waiting for?

Balsams Ski Area Expansion – view from the NW

Visit the post for more.

thebalsamsresort.com

It means very little. Hopefully Arctaris makes a strong return on Saddleback and wants to do it over again in Dixville one day. It probably not likely but I just don't see Otten ever getting off the ground.

 

[machski]

It means very little. Hopefully Arctaris makes a strong return on Saddleback and wants to do it over again in Dixville one day. It probably not likely but I just don't see Otten ever getting off the ground.

Totally different areas and deals. Saddleback outside of the Rangley chair was mostly intact with decent snowmaking system already in place. Not to mention a great baselodge and while Rangley isn't a roaring mountain town, there are beds and restaurant options there. None of that can be said of The Balsams. It is out there all on its own mostly. For someone to pull this off there, one has to be 110% in on every aspect from the skiing/ on hill amenities and the necessary base village/dining/lodging right from start. Not easy at all.

 

[2Planker]

Got a private tour yesterday. Will definitely be very nice, just in the middle of no where.

Les thinks it'll attract people from NYC and all of NE. I dunno about that.....

 

[EPB]

Totally different areas and deals. Saddleback outside of the Rangley chair was mostly intact with decent snowmaking system already in place. Not to mention a great baselodge and while Rangley isn't a roaring mountain town, there are beds and restaurant options there. None of that can be said of The Balsams. It is out there all on its own mostly. For someone to pull this off there, one has to be 110% in on every aspect from the skiing/ on hill amenities and the necessary base village/dining/lodging right from start. Not easy at all.

You're missing the forest through the trees. I agree with all the differences you outlined, which is precisely why I said it's low probability. It's important to remember there aren't Rangeleys just lying around. Greenville, where I've never been, may be the closest comp in New England, but I've never been. Some other group is already in there. The next opportunity is unlikely to be as fertile as the lowest hanging fruit.

The key similarities are that Coos County is fertile ground for an impact type investor like Arctaris like Western Maine. Population has been declining there since the 1940s, employers have moved out/gone defunct, etc. If Arctaris ever has a successful exit, two things will hopefully (from their perspective) happen: 1) they'll have a larger fund out of which to invest, and 2) they'll have a playbook on how to do all the ancillary things that made the Saddleback project work (fostering public buy-in/funding, growing revenue, operating efficiently, managing a sale process of a ski-related asset, etc.). Given the lessons learned, they may feel that there are enough positives to make The Balsams work, probably not. That said, they're probably a more realistic option than Les.

 

[deadheadskier]

Totally different areas and deals. Saddleback outside of the Rangley chair was mostly intact with decent snowmaking system already in place. Not to mention a great baselodge and while Rangley isn't a roaring mountain town, there are beds and restaurant options there. None of that can be said of The Balsams. It is out there all on its own mostly. For someone to pull this off there, one has to be 110% in on every aspect from the skiing/ on hill amenities and the necessary base village/dining/lodging right from start. Not easy at all.

Kinda.....at least in regards to geography.

Saddleback is not too much closer to Rangeley than Balsams is to Colebrook. Both ski areas are a pretty good distance from towns. Similar sized towns too. Rangeley a bit more developed for tourism obviously due to the lakes.

Definitely agree the ski area at Saddleback is far more turnkey than Balsams.

Both are really difficult locations in general.

 

[eatskisleep]

Got a private tour yesterday. Will definitely be very nice, just in the middle of no where.

Les thinks it'll attract people from NYC and all of NE. I dunno about that.....

How does snowfall up there compare to the likes of Jay Peak?

 

[machski]

You're missing the forest through the trees. I agree with all the differences you outlined, which is precisely why I said it's low probability. It's important to remember there aren't Rangeleys just lying around. Greenville, where I've never been, may be the closest comp in New England, but I've never been. Some other group is already in there. The next opportunity is unlikely to be as fertile as the lowest hanging fruit.

The key similarities are that Coos County is fertile ground for an impact type investor like Arctaris like Western Maine. Population has been declining there since the 1940s, employers have moved out/gone defunct, etc. If Arctaris ever has a successful exit, two things will hopefully (from their perspective) happen: 1) they'll have a larger fund out of which to invest, and 2) they'll have a playbook on how to do all the ancillary things that made the Saddleback project work (fostering public buy-in/funding, growing revenue, operating efficiently, managing a sale process of a ski-related asset, etc.). Given the lessons learned, they may feel that there are enough positives to make The Balsams work, probably not. That said, they're probably a more realistic option than Les.

Maybe they would be better, but would they even be interested? Given the amount of work required at Balsams, I would say Arctaris would not be interested. Granted Les started with an existing ski area in Sunday River, but he did build that out to pretty much what it is today. I believe the entire ASC venture taught him lessons in terms of what works, what needs to be done right (and wasn't back then) to make this work. You cannot argue the fact he has a passion for this project given how many times he has pivoted but kept trying to move it forward.

 

[machski]

How does snowfall up there compare to the likes of Jay Peak?

Not as much as Jay, but it does get the most in NH and holds onto it a bit better than other areas.

 

[cdskier]

Got a private tour yesterday. Will definitely be very nice, just in the middle of no where.

Les thinks it'll attract people from NYC and all of NE. I dunno about that.....

What makes him think NYC people would go up there? That's a 6.5-7 hr drive from NYC to the Balsams.

Also was just looking at their website...some of the numbers seems a bit questionable to me...



Also kind of weird to use snowfall for one specific season instead of an average...

 

[Edd]

What makes him think NYC people would go up there? That's a 6.5-7 hr drive from NYC to the Balsams.

Also was just looking at their website...some of the numbers seems a bit questionable to me...

View attachment 54997

Also kind of weird to use snowfall for one specific season instead of an average...

View attachment 54998

Perhaps market it as a premium, exclusive experience. 5 star everything, no unwashed masses.

 

[cdskier]

Perhaps market it as a premium, exclusive experience. 5 star everything, no unwashed masses.

That's about the only target audience you would get from NYC. But still not sure there's enough people in that target demographic for that to be one of your keys to success.

 

[2Planker]

Dixville land owner and 40+ year friend of Les....
Skied there last in the 80's, used to play golf there 3-4 x/yr in the 90's.
The Buffet there was possibly the best in all of NH, VT & ME.

Bring it on baby

 

[EPB]

Perhaps market it as a premium, exclusive experience. 5 star everything, no unwashed masses.

Could do the Le Massif thing and have a 3rd party resort operator run the hotel and golf.

 

[EPB]

Maybe they would be better, but would they even be interested? Given the amount of work required at Balsams, I would say Arctaris would not be interested. Granted Les started with an existing ski area in Sunday River, but he did build that out to pretty much what it is today. I believe the entire ASC venture taught him lessons in terms of what works, what needs to be done right (and wasn't back then) to make this work. You cannot argue the fact he has a passion for this project given how many times he has pivoted but kept trying to move it forward.

We're way more in agreement than not. If you told me the place will be operational in 20 years, I'd think it would be more likely an Arctaris type owner than Les that got it off the ground. That said, I'd put sub 10% odds on either of them pulling it off.

Another place that could be an okay Arctaris option one day could be Burke. It seems like a very tough sell.

 

[x10003q]

Got a private tour yesterday. Will definitely be very nice, just in the middle of no where.

Les thinks it'll attract people from NYC and all of NE. I dunno about that.....

Les is delusional about NYC.
From NNJ, The Balsams is 7 hours. The only 2 major NE ski areas longer than The Balsams are Saddleback and Sugarloaf at 7:30. Even Mt Tremblant is under 7 hours.
The Balsams needs regular weekend visits to sell/rent real estate and asking people from NYC metro to pretty much drive by every other resort in NE (not to mention Gore and Whiteface) for weekends is just not realistic.

 

[2Planker]

Les is delusional about NYC.
From NNJ, The Balsams is 7 hours. The only 2 major NE ski areas longer than The Balsams are Saddleback and Sugarloaf at 7:30. Even Mt Tremblant is under 7 hours.
The Balsams needs regular weekend visits to sell/rent real estate and asking people from NYC metro to pretty much drive by every other resort in NE (not to mention Gore and Whiteface) for weekends is just not realistic.

I hear ya.....
They've also mentioned an Airstrip could be possible in the future, as is the return of the BOS-Montreal Train already in process

 

[jimmywilson69]

Where did people used to visit from when it was open previously?

 

[thetrailboss]

That's about the only target audience you would get from NYC. But still not sure there's enough people in that target demographic for that to be one of your keys to success.

Seems to be a lot of competition for that market. At least out here there is.

 

[deadheadskier]

Where did people used to visit from when it was open previously?

I'm not sure from where, but there wasn't enough of them. Tillotson did it as a hobby essentially. He made a bunch of money off his balloon invention, moved to NH and bought an old grand hotel like he'd stay in as a child. A friend of mine whose family has owned a classic hotel property on Cape Cod for 100+ years knew him well. Said the property rarely turned a profit. Once he died the family didn't have much interest in losing more money.

So, there really isn't a recent history perspective on how to run the place profitably and where to draw customers from. I'm guessing Montreal is the prime target, then Boston.