Balsams Grand Resort teams up with ski industry legend Les Otten

[deadheadskier]

Mountain View Grand is a great property. Very much like the Mount Washington Hotel, only smaller. Very much like the Balsam's too.

I think it's presence and that of the Mount Washington Hotel is what makes the prospect of the Balsams being successful again somewhat doubtful. Both the Mountain View and Mount Washington offer that same classic old school hotel in the mountains experience with great dining, spa, golf, etc. and both are MUCH closer to Boston than the Balsams. 2.5 hours vs 4

I've only been to all three on business. I can't comment on the resort experience they all offer as a guest, but all three seem fairly similar. Every time I try and come up with a reason why someone would drive an hour and half further to stay at the Balsams as opposed to the Mount Washington or the Grand View, I draw a blank. I don't believe it's possible for the Balsams to recruit the necessary talent to execute an even higher end experience than those two competitors that would make it worth people's while to drive that extra difference.

I think that's why so many people suggest gambling. That might be the one thing that could differentiate the place from it's competitors which are closer to Boston.

 

[VTKilarney]

Omni taking over the Mount Washington does not help The Balsams. The Mount Washington hotel was a great place prior to Omni taking over, and Omni has refined the product even more.

As for the Mountain View Grand, I've always wondered how they stay in business. It's a great hotel, for sure, but the Mt. Washington is a better hotel. The Mt. Washington is closer to North Conway, has skiing across the street, is essentially within a National Forest, and has arguably the best view of any resort in New England. The Mountain View Grand is in a less appealing area, doesn't feel as "grand", and does not have the same views. They charge less than the Mount Washington, but it's still a premium product.

The Balsams has a lake/pond - which is something the other two lack.

Is there room for three grand hotels like there used to be? The market has already answered that question. The Balsams is going to have to figure out a new angle. It's that simple.

 

[xwhaler]

We stayed at the Mt View Grand a few summers ago for a wedding...2 nights. Played some golf there and used their pool, hot tub, sauna. It's nice but honestly does not have the "wow factor" of the Mt Washington Hotel. I'd actually put it a notch below the Wentworth By The Sea which is a grand historic hotel here in my neck of the woods.

Always have been intrigued by the Balsams...do agree they need to differentiate themselves a bit though unsure how many people are going to drive Route 16 or 93 then back roads from major population centers when they can go to CT all highway or even MA at some point.

As far as NH Casinos in general go, I always thought Seabrook would make the most sense. Take over the former dog track, you are right off the highway with seemingly plenty of land to build on for hotels/expansion and drawing folks from MA/NH/ME.

 

[VTKilarney]

That's funny. I've always wondered why the Wentworth was so popular. I've enjoyed dining there quite a bit, but staying there has never felt special. It's surrounded by roads and it isn't truly on the water.

 

[EPB]

Mountain View Grand is a great property. Very much like the Mount Washington Hotel, only smaller. Very much like the Balsam's too.

I think it's presence and that of the Mount Washington Hotel is what makes the prospect of the Balsams being successful again somewhat doubtful. Both the Mountain View and Mount Washington offer that same classic old school hotel in the mountains experience with great dining, spa, golf, etc. and both are MUCH closer to Boston than the Balsams. 2.5 hours vs 4

I've only been to all three on business. I can't comment on the resort experience they all offer as a guest, but all three seem fairly similar. Every time I try and come up with a reason why someone would drive an hour and half further to stay at the Balsams as opposed to the Mount Washington or the Grand View, I draw a blank. I don't believe it's possible for the Balsams to recruit the necessary talent to execute an even higher end experience than those two competitors that would make it worth people's while to drive that extra difference.

I think that's why so many people suggest gambling. That might be the one thing that could differentiate the place from it's competitors which are closer to Boston.

This might have been brought up before, but to what extent do would one speculate that these guys would go after the Quebec market? Some quick digging on google maps and wikipedia yield the following:

Montreal: 2h 40 away; 3.8MM metro area population as of 2011
Quebec City: 3h 45 away; 766k metro area population as of 2011
Sherbrooke: 1h 30 away; 202k metro area population as of 2011
Trois Rivieres: 3h 2 away; 152k metro area population as of 2011

Going after the MTL market would imply going up against Jay Peak, Tremblant and the Eastern Townships (all closer), for what it's worth.

 

[deadheadskier]

The marina suites at the Wentworth are on the water.

The popularity of the hotel is due to lack of comparable competition nearby. There's nothing remotely as nice in the area. It's an easy drive from Boston, so it makes for a quick easy getaway from there for a night or weekend.

 

[deadheadskier]

and FWIW, the owners of the Wentworth briefly entertained buying the Balsams when it initially went up for sale, but deemed it not economically viable.

 

[VTKilarney]

This might have been brought up before, but to what extent do would one speculate that these guys would go after the Quebec market?

There is no speculation about it. They would have to court the Quebec market. IMHO, the biggest competition is Tremblant. Jay Peak is, and always will be, a different experience. Tremblant has a more gentrified presence. It's the place to "be seen" for well to do Montrealers. Fortunately for the Balsams, Tremblant is on the other side of Montreal. Those who live to the east and south may be tempted to go to the Balsams instead.

 

[steamboat1]

Not for nothing but there is already a slew of Grand Hotels located in & around the Quebec City area.

 

[VTKilarney]

That is definitely true, but for some reason the Eastern Townships is lacking in that department. You have a couple of fantastic inns (Ripplecove, Manoir Hovey), but not grand hotels in the historical sense.

 

[x10003q]

There is no speculation about it. They would have to court the Quebec market. IMHO, the biggest competition is Tremblant. Jay Peak is, and always will be, a different experience. Tremblant has a more gentrified presence. It's the place to "be seen" for well to do Montrealers. Fortunately for the Balsams, Tremblant is on the other side of Montreal. Those who live to the east and south may be tempted to go to the Balsams instead.

Lake Placid/Whiteface (2hrs from Montreal) and Gore say hello. You are asking Montrealers to drive past the Eastern Townships, Jay, Burke, Smuggs, Stowe, Sugarbush/MRG and the 2 NYS areas to drive to this place for some little mountain skiing?

The other reality is northern NH no longer has cache. Bigwigs will continue to get on their jets and go to Jackson Hole or Sun Valley and not even think about NH.

This is similar to what is going on in Tupper Lake, NY.

 

[AdironRider]

Again guys, the ski area is not everything about this resort. Its just one aspect of several.

Opposed to Whiteface, Gore, Jay, Smuggs, et al where the primary focus is on skiing.

Key difference.

 

[VTKilarney]

Exactly. This is about building a resort - not just a ski area.

 

[x10003q]

Again guys, the ski area is not everything about this resort. Its just one aspect of several.

Opposed to Whiteface, Gore, Jay, Smuggs, et al where the primary focus is on skiing.

Key difference.

Lake Placid/WF has more visitors during the summer vs the winter. Trying to recapture some magic from the rail era will be mighty difficult in the era of cars.

 

[SIKSKIER]

Lake Placid/WF has more visitors during the summer vs the winter. Trying to recapture some magic from the rail era will be mighty difficult in the era of cars.

Same with Cannon/Franconia Notch State park.Totally agree with your last sentance also and apparently so do most investors which is why its still having trouble figuring out whats next.

 

[dlague]

Just got out of a meeting discussing electricity demand for their plans. I work for the utility that distributes power there. They have significant snow making plans and they talked about the goal of becoming one of the largest if not the largest ski area in New England. The catch is the variance they are trying to get regarding the Wind Turbines which they have already applied for. If they get the variance then they plan on going for it. It is definitely and longer term plan. BTW, they plan on laying about 8 miles of snowmaking.

So.... I know this area is not all about the ski area but it is surely front and center.

 

[ss20]

Alright, joking over. Otten is crazy if he thinks he can build a SR-type mega-resort in this day and age. Who's funding this?!? Jay can't get anything built with EB-5. No other resorts are doing anything this summer. Demand is dying, as with every sport besides golf, tennis, and golf cart racing for the baby boomers. And I'm amazed the environmentalists haven't shot this down yet.

I don't see this happening. Nearly impossible. Call me negative if you want, but you're lying to yourself if you truly think this will fully work out.

I believe opening the original resort is definitely plausible.

 

[Newpylong]

Out of his mind.

 

[dlague]

Alright, joking over. Otten is crazy if he thinks he can build a SR-type mega-resort in this day and age. Who's funding this?!? Jay can't get anything built with EB-5. No other resorts are doing anything this summer. Demand is dying, as with every sport besides golf, tennis, and golf cart racing for the baby boomers. And I'm amazed the environmentalists haven't shot this down yet.

I don't see this happening. Nearly impossible. Call me negative if you want, but you're lying to yourself if you truly think this will fully work out.

I believe opening the original resort is definitely plausible.

Personally, a lot of approvals will be required to get this project done, but it has a ten year plan. That area up there is hurting for jobs so I would imagine if this idea actually takes off - the state will be backing it 100%.

 

[DoublePlanker]

We'll see if anybody invests. It seems like there isn't an ROI there. I would like to see it come back. But I am doubtful it can work except for some wealthy investors who don't care about annual losses.