Belleayre and NYS Budget Cuts

[thinnmann]

....No reason at all for Belleayre to be state run.

...does that go for all the New York state beaches, lakes, parks, Whiteface and Gore too?....

 

[jamesdeluxe]

What about the all those unfortunate country clubs that have to compete against state-run golf courses?

Privatize them all and let market forces reign!! It worked for the financial markets, right?

 

[ERJ-145CA]

I do feel bad for the country clubs, you are absolutely right.

 

[faceplant]

http://www.savescotchvalley.com/

Went home upstate this weekend was excited to hear there is a group trying to get Scotch Valley back up and running. As for Belleayre, I agree with the lease to a private organization idea. Put a 50-yr lease together and let Hunter/Windham and Plattekill bid for it. If none of them want the 50-yr lease, open it up to another resoponsible third party. No reason at all for Belleayre to be state run.

I wish you nothin but the best getting Scotch Valley outta mothballs. If thats succesfull

mebbe they can turn there atention to Bobcat.. Cortina... Highmount..Phoenicia ..

Dutchess-Beacon.. Big Vanilla... all them great old private areas

http://www.teachski.com/brochures/BigVanilla/Bigvanilla.htm

 

[catskills]

I like state owned ski areas, golf courses, beaches, camp grounds, lakes, boat slips, museums, etc..... Some of you go way too far with this anti state competing with private enterprise. Give me a break. Next you will want only privately owned businesses to run hiking trails in the Adirondacks and Catskills.

Then again I am a Volunteer Firemen/EMT-B and we don't charge for medical care, extracting you and your loved ones from a motor vehicle accident, and transport you to a Hospital. I know Volunteer rescue squads are anti capitalism and compete with the paid ambulance services.

 

[ERJ-145CA]

I like state owned ski areas, golf courses, beaches, camp grounds, lakes, boat slips, museums, etc..... Some of you go way too far with this anti state competing with private enterprise. Give me a break. Next you will want only privately owned businesses to run hiking trails in the Adirondacks and Catskills.

Privately owned businesses running hiking trails would be awesome. Just think you could see advertisements on the trees along the trail instead of just boring old trees!

 

[Method9455]

I like state owned ski areas, golf courses, beaches, camp grounds, lakes, boat slips, museums, etc..... Some of you go way too far with this anti state competing with private enterprise. Give me a break. Next you will want only privately owned businesses to run hiking trails in the Adirondacks and Catskills.

Then again I am a Volunteer Firemen/EMT-B and we don't charge for medical care, extracting you and your loved ones from a motor vehicle accident, and transport you to a Hospital. I know Volunteer rescue squads are anti capitalism and compete with the paid ambulance services.

I look at Belleayre the same way I look at the parks in Manhattan. When I go eat the bag lunch I brought from home in Madison Park and I see a lot of guys in suits going into restaurants for lunch that I can barely afford, I'm glad that the government is "subsidizing" my recreation just a bit.

Imagine how much money the city of New York could make if it turned all the parks into office buildings and charged rent? We wouldn't need to pay any taxes. Or sell central park off parcel by parcel, put it in a trust fund, we'd never pay taxes again.

But no one argues for that because we all enjoy the parks too much. Belleayre is much the same way. It is subsidized recreation, but it is economic stimulus for the area and it enables a lot of people to go skiing that otherwise couldn't because the prices are lower. If parks in the city were privatized, they would be a lot better for those who could afford to get in - it is often difficult to get a seat on a sunny summer day - but would it be better for everyone?

I'm just glad that it will be in full operation this year.

 

[faceplant]

N.Y. governor's lease proposal includes roads, bridges
ALBANY, N.Y. — Gov. David Paterson is proposing that New York join a growing number of states in leasing assets to private contractors to trim costs and provide long-term, steady revenue. Under consideration for leasing could be everything from state highways and bridges to the lottery, golf courses, parks and beaches. -----"I think what you have to do is avoid a fire sale of state assets, whether you call it a sale or a 99-year lease," said Democratic Assemblyman Richard Brodsky of Westchester, whose authorities committee would likely have to approve the deals. "This is a week in which we're considering spending $1 trillion to bail out Wall Street. What magic do they bring?"
http://www.thetrucker.com/news/stories/2008/10/3/NYgovernorsleaseproposalincludesroadsbridges.aspx

believe it or not friend somebodies thinkin of just that but like thinns been sayin they gotta get around the law. So mebbe theyll look for easier targets like a carthief that spots a lojack & moves on to next one. heres a solution- just swap silver hancuffs for some golden parashutes & we wont have to wory bout a thing, what with all that coin. Wall st dont need a bailout- they need a good parole officer

 

[Starter Jackets Rule!]

I look at Belleayre the same way I look at the parks in Manhattan. When I go eat the bag lunch I brought from home in Madison Park and I see a lot of guys in suits going into restaurants for lunch that I can barely afford, I'm glad that the government is "subsidizing" my recreation just a bit.

Imagine how much money the city of New York could make if it turned all the parks into office buildings and charged rent? We wouldn't need to pay any taxes. Or sell central park off parcel by parcel, put it in a trust fund, we'd never pay taxes again.

But no one argues for that because we all enjoy the parks too much. Belleayre is much the same way. It is subsidized recreation, but it is economic stimulus for the area and it enables a lot of people to go skiing that otherwise couldn't because the prices are lower. If parks in the city were privatized, they would be a lot better for those who could afford to get in - it is often difficult to get a seat on a sunny summer day - but would it be better for everyone?

I'm just glad that it will be in full operation this year.

"I'm glad that the government is "subsidizing" my recreation just a bit. ...."
Government?
Don't you mean the TAXPAYERS?

 

[catskills]

"I'm glad that the government is "subsidizing" my recreation just a bit. ...."
Government?
Don't you mean the TAXPAYERS?

Not sure what the problem here is. Is there a problem? Taxpayers like myself pay a lot and I mean a lot of taxes. Getting a little recreation in return that I enjoy is not too much to ask. Last week I hiked up to the Hunter Fire tower from the Spurceton Valley. NY State DEC is building a rather nice bridge out of metal beams across a smll stream not to far from the trail head in Spruceton. The bridge will be large enough to support small jeeps and horses. This bridge is for fire control, hiking and horse riding. I for one don't have a problem with this. Unlike Belleayre their are no ticket sales to recoup the money spent on this bridge, which BTW is in Greene county. H'mmm I don't see Hunter and Windham complaining to the DEC and hiring lobyists to prevent NY State from spending money on this bridge in Greene county.

 

[millerm277]

H'mmm I don't see Hunter and Windham complaining to the DEC and hiring lobyists to prevent NY State from spending money on this bridge in Greene county.

Hmm....maybe that's because Hunter and Windham couldn't care less, because that has exactly zero effect on them.

 

[Method9455]

"I'm glad that the government is "subsidizing" my recreation just a bit. ...."
Government?
Don't you mean the TAXPAYERS?

Nope I mean the government.

Taxes are no longer connected to spending, the government decides what to spend money on what it deems important and borrows it from elsewhere. Being that new york is getting bailed out indirectly by the federal gov it is funny you should say something like that.

 

[thinnmann]

We hit 10,000 views!

Overall ever on AZ, this thread ranks 9th in views, 4th in number of replies.

The Thread's Prophecy Has Been Fulfilled...........

Om.

:beer:

 

[catskills]

Yahoo - 10,000 views :blink:

 

[Starter Jackets Rule!]

Nope I mean the government.

Taxes are no longer connected to spending, the government decides what to spend money on what it deems important and borrows it from elsewhere. Being that new york is getting bailed out indirectly by the federal gov it is funny you should say something like that.

Cool ,We are now off the hook when it comes to paying taxes!
Thanks for making the clear to all of us!
so, what kind of new gear are you going to buy since we no longer have to pay Taxes?
New skis/board?
A ski pass?
Do Tell Do Tell!

Me, I am going to but Tony Lanza A beer With my new savings.
btw I do ski the bell.

 

[jtothewang]

...does that go for all the New York state beaches, lakes, parks, Whiteface and Gore too?....

You got it buddy, lease all those puppies out. How else can you ensure they are profitable and run reponsibly? Last I checked we are in the United States of America. You know they don't even teach the Boston Tea Party in school anymore. We need to get back to our roots, the things that made this country great.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox....

 

[thinnmann]

keepin' da thread alive!

You got it buddy, lease all those puppies out. How else can you ensure they are profitable and run reponsibly? Last I checked we are in the United States of America. You know they don't even teach the Boston Tea Party in school anymore. We need to get back to our roots, the things that made this country great.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox....

I am a high school teacher. My buddies in the history dept do teach about that particular party.

...and, um, i don't exactly get the connection between the question about profit and responsibility and the last you checked about where we live stuff.... Drinking tonight? Or just J-ing to the wanging us?

 

[jtothewang]

I am a high school teacher. My buddies in the history dept do teach about that particular party.

...and, um, i don't exactly get the connection between the question about profit and responsibility and the last you checked about where we live stuff.... Drinking tonight? Or just J-ing to the wanging us?

good point, re: profit and responsability. i forgot about the 700b bailout (think groovy baby, what was that movie again?) i guess i just think we are doomed because now we americans rely on the govt for too much. just my opinion, but i hear it on the subway and around town. don't you think we are on the slippery slope to socialism? or maybe we are skipping that and going straight to communism. just don't know why the govt needs to get involved in so much stuff.

:beer:

by the way, lift tickets at windham are $65 this year. how about belleayre? i don't even know because they cut the mountain in half, so maybe they charge half?

:beer:

ohh yeah, and please thank your buddies for me. that was a very important party...many people have forgotten all about that party....and i have heard of us history books that have omitted talking about that party...

 

[thinnmann]

good point, re: profit and responsability. i forgot about the 700b bailout (think groovy baby, what was that movie again?) i guess i just think we are doomed because now we americans rely on the govt for too much. just my opinion, but i hear it on the subway and around town. don't you think we are on the slippery slope to socialism? or maybe we are skipping that and going straight to communism. just don't know why the govt needs to get involved in so much stuff.

:beer:

by the way, lift tickets at windham are $65 this year. how about belleayre? i don't even know because they cut the mountain in half, so maybe they charge half?

:beer:

Dude, I don't want to derail this thread into one about the current panic the Repubs are in. That will surely get it locked.

You are sounding pretty uninformed about the final resolution of the Belleayre situation. The mountain is not cut in half and the lift ticket prices are posted on the Belleayre site.

And stop getting your news and opinion from the subway chatter. At AZ slippery slopes are a good thing.

 

[skidbump]

Not making snow on upper roaring brook, tongora ,mohawk,peekamoose and pepacton and a cut to already promised expansion money and you may as well close er down.

Belleayre Resort opponents say cash-strapped state should withdraw funding

Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:06 AM EST
By JAY BRAMAN JR.
Correspondent

OPPONENTS of the Belleayre Resort at Catskill Park see an opportunity in the state’s budget crisis, asking Gov. David Paterson to reconsider the $60 million in state money earmarked for the proposed public/private project.

In a Nov. 16 letter to Paterson, the Catskill Heritage Alliance, a 500-member grassroots community and environmental organization, wrote: “In our current crisis, when so much is being asked of so many, this kind of public spending to support private interests makes no sense at all.”

The developers of the Belleayre project say the region needs this type of public spending now more than ever.

Noting the governor’s proposed spending cuts in the areas of education and health care, and the resulting added burdens that would be placed on workers, Alliance Chairman Richard Schaedle suggested the state’s financial commitment to the Belleayre Resort was made only to head off even larger resort plans by developer Crossroads Ventures LLC.

“Asking taxpayers to fork over tens of millions of dollars to, in effect, induce a private development company not to build an environmentally intolerable project but rather one that is merely environmentally disastrous — as well as economically unsound — strikes us as a bad idea at the best of times,” Schaedle wrote. “In our current crisis, when so much is being asked of so many, we suggest that this kind of public spending to support private interests makes no sense at all. We respectfully urge that you review this $60 million public expenditure in our state budget, which we hold to be an unnecessary and, in the present crisis, an excessive burden on taxpayers.”

In a prepared statement, Crossroads spokeswoman Joan Lawrence-Bauer said now is the time to invest in the Belleayre project and the adjacent state-owned ski center.

“Our area needs the jobs this project will create now more than ever,” Lawrence-Bauer said. “And the taxpayers in our region are in desperate need of increased commercial properties on the tax rolls that will help to reduce the overall property tax burden on other private residential and commercial property owners.”

Saying the regional economy has depended on Belleayre Ski Center for nearly 60 years, Lawrence-Bauer added that the resort would create more than $400 million in private-sector investment in what she described as a chronically depressed region.

And noting that studies dating back 40 years recommend the Belleayre ski center become a year-round resort and that the environmental review process for the Crossroads plan has been extensive, Lawrence-Bauer said the state should stay the course.

“The Catskill Heritage Alliance wants Gov. Paterson to kill improvements to Belleayre Mountain because of the current budget crisis,” she said. “Their request is untrue, short-sighted and self-serving in the extreme.”

The resort, which would straddle the border of Ulster and Delaware counties, first was proposed in 1999 and was modified last year as part of an agreement brokered by then-Gov. Eliot Spitzer.

Under the current plan, the resort would comprise two complexes — one with a 250-room hotel and 139 townhouse-style lodging units surrounding an 18-hole golf course; the other with a 120-room hotel and spa, 60 lodging units in two buildings and another 60 detached units in up to 52 buildings. The deal also calls for about 1,200 acres of woodland near the resort to be sold by Crossroads to the state to be protected.

Joe Kelly of the Coalition to Save Belleayre criticized the request by the Catskill Heritage Alliance.

“We are baffled that at this particular time, when the very existence and operation of Belleayre Mountain is at stake, that the (alliance) would choose to take this position,” Kelly said, referring to the reduction of the ski center’s operating budget this season. “At a time when governments at every level in every country are developing economic stimulus packages to keep people working and create new jobs, it is absurd to call for a rollback of an economic stimulus already approved.”