Belleayre Unfair Advantage?

[Brettski]

And they have a nice bar, and a good vibe.

Not on your life

The bar wenches are the pits with 'tude

That said I like Bell's appreciation days

 

[kingslug]

Not on your life

The bar wenches are the pits with 'tude

That said I like Bell's appreciation days

Suprising...they do work for tips.

 

[Phlogiston]

Some places make snow to keep the trails cold, when they're pretty sure that there will be more natural snow. Maine is like that.
You can have a thaw, and the exposed spots on some trails will melt off, and the soil underneath absorbs a lot of heat because it's dark....
If they chill it with man made snow before a storm, or during one, the natural snow will have a chance to stick without melting off.

Highmount is on the other side of the mountain from Belleayre. It's listed on Nelsap and the Lost NY Ski Areas website, along with Cathalia, Cortina, and Scotch Valley. It may show up on TOPO maps, I haven't looked. Ski Minne and Big Vanilla are on the TOPO maps as 'ski slopes' with no names.

 

[twinplanx]

The best thing about Bellearyre is that it's not huntyer or wynndom

 

[Hawkshot99]

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=highmount+ski+area&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

So where is highmount?

I read that's somewhere just off Deer Run

The spot of Deere Run that swings out the farthest, then has a real tight right hand turn, stop. Look off into the woods, 100-200 feet, you can see some small lift towers. i believe that they are green. That is Highmount.

 

[Bandit2941]

Not on your life

The bar wenches are the pits with 'tude

"Location: Deep in the Heart of Joisey"

I wonder if this has anything to do with it?

 

[Bandit2941]

I do know that I've been hearing bad rumors about closing dates and stuff...

Not true.......

 

[dmc]

Not true.......

Good.. I like the closing weekend at Bellayre.. It's becoming tradition..

 

[thinnmann]

Man - a guy spends some time getting work done and he misses out on a thread like this?...

Not once have I gotten attitude from the bar people at Belleayre. Probably if you bring tude you get tude...

Bumps at Belleayre are great. I hope they are a little softer tomorrow. O YEA -THERE IS A SNOW ADVISORY! 5 or 6 inches tomorrow morning!
http://www.weather.com/outlook/recreation/ski/tenday/914001:11?from=_topnav_ski#

Belleayre is a place where I don't have to worry about my kids. The Alpine and Race programs are outstanding. It doesn't cost us a lot of money, relatively. It is structured to keep the beginners from knocking into more advanced skiers. Please stay away if you don't like the family vibe. Go to Hunter. Nothing wrong with that. There is room for everyone up here. If Greene county ski areas cooperated with Bell and Plat, maybe everybody would get more skiers.

That wasn't supposed to sound like a rant. I just wanna ski and Belleayre just smells a lot more like skiing than those other places put together. I am hoping the proposed resort doesn't change the vibe and clientèle and pricing.

 

[Phlogiston]

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=highmount+ski+area&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

So where is highmount?

I read that's somewhere just off Deer Run

If you look at the topographic map at this location:

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=42.1438&lon=-74.52626&size=l&symshow=n&u=4&datum=nad27&layer=DRG

you can see 'Bell Ayr Mountain' and the Belleayre ski area clearly marked. If you look to the left (west) on the map, you will see another smaller ski area, one lift, and a few trails shown on the map. That was Highmount.
It is separated from Belleayre by ridges and a creek.
It is visible just above the letters S H A in the name 'Shandaken'.

To find it through google, search for TOPOZONE and HIGHMOUNT; that will take you to the topographic map, on the topozone site.

 

[Phlogiston]

Go here to see some recent pics of Highmount, taken by someone who hiked up and skied down

http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77015

 

[Hawkshot99]

Go here to see some recent pics of Highmount, taken by someone who hiked up and skied down

http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77015

Here are some of my pics I took from there last March or Feb.

Some of it is pretty open...

Some of it is really thick....This is not the thickest area, my camera died early in the day.

Top of "Friends Chair"

 

[Buckeye Skier 1330]

It seems with 8 million people living in the Big Apple 21/2 to 3 hours away there should be enough business for all 3 areas to thrive. They do each have their own characteristics which makes for a good combo trip. I would love to see Belleayre expand to Highmount. I saw the top of Highmount from Rt. 28 last week. Could be interesting.

 

[catskills]

It seems with 8 million people living in the Big Apple 21/2 to 3 hours away there should be enough business for all 3 areas to thrive. They do each have their own characteristics which makes for a good combo trip. I would love to see Belleayre expand to Highmount. I saw the top of Highmount from Rt. 28 last week. Could be interesting.

Excellent point. Then you got, New Jersey, Philly and Washington DC, and Maryland. I have met a number of folks on Catskill mountain chairlifts from Maryland. Like I said, if you build it, they will come. Personally, I truly enjoy skiing all four mountains in the Catskills ( Belleayre, Hunter, Plattekill, Windham). I think some are managed better than others. For example, the new Windham management has made some good decisions and some bad decisions. Hopefully they will all learn and get better.

Questions:

Wouldn't the real estate values at Hunter and Windham increase if Hunter and Windham had shorter lift lines and less crowds? Maybe Hunter and Windham should increase their lift tickets prices by $20. As for the economy, maybe less customers is more $$$$ .

If Belleayre closed their doors tomorrow, would Hunter and Windham really have a significant increase in skier/rider visits? Most of Hunter and Windham customer visits are on big holiday periods, when they are maxed to capacity. There is only so much stuff you can squeeze into a box. I got to believe that Belleayre customers from out of the area and out of state would just go to Vermont, if Belleayre closed their doors.

From a safety point of view, increasing the number of holiday/weekend skier/riders at Hunter and Windham trails is a scary thought. :blink:

Personally I think having a cheap mountain where newbies can enter the sport of skiing/riding and then having larger more expensive resorts is an excellent win/win formula. Hey what do I know. I have only been skiing for a few decades.

 

[dmc]

From a safety point of view, increasing the number of holiday/weekend skier/riders at Hunter and Windham trails is a scary thought. :blink:

It really hasn't been bad in the last few years... I can't speak to Windham but Hunter hasn't been the Hunter of the 70's and 80's for a while.. From what I'm hearing here - Belleayre has been more crowded then Hunter this year... We're waiting 10 minutes on the A quad and the Superchief has a 20 minute line...

And the town is starting to feel it as businesses close and do not reopen....
Remember this decision could affect local businesses trying to scrape out an existence in an already hurting economy...

Vote for Mike Tancredi this Tuesday - Hunter Village Mayor!!!!
He's got some good ideas!

 

[catskills]

It really hasn't been bad in the last few years... I can't speak to Windham but Hunter hasn't been the Hunter of the 70's and 80's for a while.. From what I'm hearing here - Belleayre has been more crowded then Hunter this year... We're waiting 10 minutes on the A quad and the Superchief has a 20 minute line...

And the town is starting to feel it as businesses close and do not reopen....
Remember this decision could affect local businesses trying to scrape out an existence in an already hurting economy...

Vote for Mike Tancredi this Tuesday - Hunter Village Mayor!!!!
He's got some good ideas!

Thanks for posting this DMC. I would like to believe that there is enough business for everyone with all those people near by. Maybe not. Then again may be the Catskills needs a better marketing plan. I know last year the 2006-2007 season bad weather hurt the Catskills. I would have thought this year was a whole lot better. A four season resort business model is very important. Vermont seems to do a better job in this area than the Catskills.

Over the years I have learned to judge the US economy by looking at cars. The more dents, rust, and older cars the worse the economy. From looking at the cars these days, the economy seems to be going down and they are using the R word these days.

Plane travel has changed things for sure. You can fly into Salt Lake for under $300 round trip. I can take the UTAH bus and TRAX from SLC airport to a hotel in Midvale, UT for under $2. Ski Alta and Snowbird for under $80/day/person including lodging, lift ticket, and bus transportation.

 

[dmc]

Thanks for posting this DMC. I would like to believe that there is enough business for everyone with all those people near by. Maybe not. Then again may be the Catskills needs a better marketing plan. I know last year the 2006-2007 season bad weather hurt the Catskills. I would have thought this year was a whole lot better. A four season resort business model is very important. Vermont seems to do a better job in this area than the Catskills.

We got issues here.. Real estate locked up... Prices out of control.. NYC up our asses about the water.. Crappy reputation of being a party town.. i could go on and on..

Speaking if issues - looks like the visibility is getting better... Time to hit the hill.. Hunter's open till 5 tonight!

 

[dmc]

Over the years I have learned to judge the US economy by looking at cars. The more dents, rust, and older cars the worse the economy. From looking at the cars these days, the economy seems to be going down and they are using the R word these days.

The R word is like Global Warming.. Some people say it exists some say it doesn't..

I've seen impact on local businesses as far as having to raise prices for some foods.
Real Estate is a joke.. Prices are mellowing and people still want $500,000 for a beat up AFrame..

 

[kingslug]

A lot of people go to Bell simply because it is an easier mountain. There is more to do for the low intermediate skier than Hunters steep pitches. When I want to go there my sister in law and her kids prefer Bell. Things might reverse somewhat if Bell's terrain gets expanded and there is more for skiers like us to play around on.

 

[thinnmann]

It really hasn't been bad in the last few years... I can't speak to Windham but Hunter hasn't been the Hunter of the 70's and 80's for a while.. From what I'm hearing here - Belleayre has been more crowded then Hunter this year... We're waiting 10 minutes on the A quad and the Superchief has a 20 minute line...

DMC has really been pushing this image of Belleayre as being the "New Hunter" when it comes to lift lines. (Maybe from a couple of my posts.) But take them as a whole: You can read my blog and my trip reports for 21 days of skiing at Belleayre this winter so far, all weekends and holidays, and see that there were only about two outrageously long lift line days. They were around President's Day, especially when Superchief kept breaking down. I waited in ZERO lift lines today.

I figure DMC is trying to get more people to ski at Hunter, and less at Belleayre. Which is fine with me.