Burke/Ginn Publicly Unveil Plans

[thetrailboss]

Some have noted that Burke has a new website with a link to the development plans. Here are those plans for your viewing and comment. FWIW we asked Burke two years ago to post those plans here for you to see, but they didn't. Now they are because the first round of public meetings are two weeeks from now and they have settled on what they want to do.

The Master Plan.

Sherburne Base Plan Note the expanded lodge, relocation of snowmaking and maintenance buildings, expanded parking lot. Burke is shifting their day skiers to the lower mountain. The new lodge will seat 675. Current one seats 300.

MidBurke Plan. New Express lift (?) will sit in the current MidBurke Lot. Lodge will be torn down and replaced by a 4000 sf sprung structure for a lodge. Translation: no more midmountain lodge...for now. Terrain additions: note that Upper Doug's will be widened. Also note that there are trails to the Cutter Area. Minor terrain additions at best. Not clear what will happen with Poma or Willoughby. Previous plans had the Willoughby cut in half and terminating near where Tower 17 (top of Upper Warren's) is and the Poma cut to the midstation.

Cutter Plan features the condo development, a new lift, some beginner/intermediate terrain that sits in the meadow above the old Cutter Inn. Some addition trails from East Bowl area to it.

No immediate plans for expansion in East Bowl, but the map indicates where those trails and one lift will go.

Thoughts? Comments?

I tried to put the images on this post, but no luck...if someone can, awesome.

 

[dcarbs]

Interesting stuff. What I heard was that the new HSQ was going to start where the current maintenance shed is and run to where the Willoughby currently ends w/ the Willoughby being shortened to tower 17, but it looks like the base of the Quad will be where the lower part of the current midburke lot is right now, so I guess that means no more parking at midburke once the lift gets installed

 

[Glenn]

Very interesting. I used to go there a lot when I was younger. I remember they had always proposed expanding the area to the right of Willoughby. Now it looks like they're going to do the opposite and expand near East Bowl. I hope they can make it happen. I know they've gone through a lot of owner transfers over the years.

 

[from_the_NEK]

I can't say there are any big surprises.

The one thing I am surprised about is the lack of a "permanent" lodge at mid-Burke. A 4000 square foot "Sprung" structure, similar in style to the one adjacent to the Base Lodge (but larger) doesn't seem quite large enough to accomodate the crowds that congregate on a race weekend. Will there be food available in this building? Will it have windows? Where will the bar be :-o ? I vote to keep it where it is (It won't interfere with the lift.
Mid-Burke parking appears to be concentrated in the current "overflow" lots that are accross the road from the current maintenance building. These lots will be very close to the new Mid-Burke Sprung structure.

Additionally, in the Mid-Burke plan it looks like Lower Foxes gets widened to the snowmaking pipe :-(

 

[Highway Star]

This is much better than Killington/SPLand.....they had to rely on the town to post it to a website.

 

[thetrailboss]

MidBurke: original plan was to have a hotel there. Not now at least. I agree that eliminating the lodge altogether is shortsighted, but I can understand their thinking....i.e. only racers will be there. Many locals go to MidBurke, which takes a strain off of Sherburne.

 

[tcharron]

This is much better than Killington/SPLand.....they had to rely on the town to post it to a website.

And that small whip of information contributes to the conversation.. How exactly? Instead of a congradulatory, "Hey, that's awesome!", Burke gets demoted to, "Well, at least you did better then your bigger brother. Lets talk more about him"...

You where the youngest child, wherent you....

 

[BigJay]

Big loss for the Kingdom Trails Associations who spent a lot of time building mountain bike trails on the mountain... With this plan, we'll loose Dead Moose Alley, Upper Dead Moose and Dead Moose Abuse along with a few others like Owl's Peak...

And all of that thanks to a big company that wants to establish a resort up North where people aren't doing to well... and bring in more BMW, Mercedes, etc...

 

[thetrailboss]

And all of that thanks to a big company that wants to establish a resort up North where people aren't doing to well... and bring in more BMW, Mercedes, etc...

Not to get political, but welcome to Vermont. That's what has been happening here for a while now.

 

[Highway Star]

And that small whip of information contributes to the conversation.. How exactly? Instead of a congradulatory, "Hey, that's awesome!", Burke gets demoted to, "Well, at least you did better then your bigger brother. Lets talk more about him"...

You where the youngest child, wherent you....

I thought it was important to note the contrast with one of the other nearby resorts that is also in the planning->permitting stages.

I wouldn't worry about this too much, chances are nothing will happen for a few years, if ever.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Big loss for the Kingdom Trails Associations who spent a lot of time building mountain bike trails on the mountain... With this plan, we'll loose Dead Moose Alley, Upper Dead Moose and Dead Moose Abuse along with a few others like Owl's Peak...

And all of that thanks to a big company that wants to establish a resort up North where people aren't doing to well... and bring in more BMW, Mercedes, etc...

On the other hand this also expands the possibility of lift served biking.
Ginn has been working pretty closely with KTA to ensure that mountain biking remains viable. Summer in Burke used to be DEAD. With the advent of the Kingdom Trails, the town is now busy during non-snow months (rich people like to have an audience that can see that they are rich :idea. I don't think Ginn wants to cut off that hand. Sure, it is a setback for KTA in that existing trails get wiped out. However, there is room for new trails in the trees surrounding the development(s).

 

[thetrailboss]

On the other hand this also expands the possibility of lift served biking.
Ginn has been working pretty closely with KTA to ensure that mountain biking remains viable. Summer in Burke used to be DEAD. With the advent of the Kingdom Trails, the town is now busy during non-snow months (rich people like to have an audience that can see that they are rich :idea. I don't think Ginn wants to cut off that hand. Sure, it is a setback for KTA in that existing trails get wiped out. However, there is room for new trails in the trees surrounding the development(s).

+ 1. If anything, Ginn has really downsized their plan and has taken some input (hopefully from here). The lift configuration, once again, makes sense. At one point a skier starting at the bottom would have to have taken three (yes, three) different lifts to get to the top. Now it looks like just two. I don't know if the new Summit Lift (six pack? Gondola? HSQ?) is going to at the same elevation as the current lodge or low enough so that skiers and riders can ski over to it.

Also, the ski terrain, by and large, remains the same.

 

[Masskier]

The sprung structure is temporary. Phase 2 of their development includes 363 residential units and amenities at Mid Burke. Also in Phase 2 is the golf course, house lots, and East bowl expansion. Overall they will add approximately 125 acres of new ski trails.

 

[Masskier]

As far as the racers go, I would think that at some point they would have their own building, similar to what they have at Sugarbush

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Now comes the always interesting, frustrating and sometimes exciting process of getting their Act 250 permit. Figure 2-5 years depending on a whole bunch of diferent factors.

 

[deadheadskier]

Can't comment now.....but, can't wait to ski there for the first time this winter, experience what I can and have a comment done the road.

 

[riverc0il]

The overall view is stunning. In a good way. It seems they preserve the essence of the mountain and the condos, development, and golf course are all far removed from the skiing. East Bowl area will loose its existing character with the East Bowl Trail becoming its main route to the Cutter area from the new chair. But the new chair makes East Bowl shine as a true pod with expanded offerings and trails and glades. A fair trade off, in my opinion, but many will bemoan the change in East Bowl. Then again, that seems to be slatted for future expansion and not part of the immediate plan of attack.

The widening of trails is perhaps the most offensive aspect to the plan and the one I take issue with. The Mid-Burke Grading Plan show many curves taken off the edges of some trails and a major widening of one small trail. I am sure this disrespect for Burke's curvy and interesting trails will be prevalent throughout the mountain... making way for flat boulevards. Interestingly enough... regrading and widening Burke's cruisers would remove Burke from my contention of having some of the best cruising terrain in the Northeast.

The new lift may change the nature of Doug's Drop and its trees for better or for worse. I think cutting off the existing Willoughby Quad at the top of Fox's is a sound idea... but the Poma already goes up that high so it seems redundant. They could cut the Poma in half but then they lose the surface lift ability to keep the mountain open while the chairlifts are on wind hold. Regardless, with a high speed lift to the summit, I doubt the quad or Poma would see any riders except for the BMA kids and visiting racers.

I boot up at Mid-Burke for convenience but I really don't care if they tear it down. I know TB enjoys the Mid-Burke along with many other locals. With the Sherburne Express at the base lodge, it is almost not even worth the drive up the narrow widening road in bad weather except to store lunch and gear so you don't need to waste a trip back to the lodge during a snake break.

Overall, I say bravo. The plan seems well thought out and the only missing ingredient is who is actually going to buy the real estate to power this whole thing, LOL. Seems like it will bring in an exclusive bunch who will enjoy paying big bucks to have a very low key and uncrowded four season resort with a very authentic feel. I gotta believe that the real estate and four season resort will pay for this project because not even this expansion is going to put Burke much more on the map. After all... it is soooooo far away from EVERYWHERE! :lol:

 

[riverc0il]

Not to get political, but welcome to Vermont. That's what has been happening here for a while now.

LOL -- Truth!

 

[Masskier]

"a very low key and uncrowded four season resort with a very authentic feel."

I think this is key, maintaining as much of Burke's character as possible. That authentic feel, is what many resorts lack.

 

[riverc0il]

I think this is key, maintaining as much of Burke's character as possible. That authentic feel, is what many resorts lack.

It will be interesting to see how one of the biggest resort developer's in the country handles the authenticity issue at Burke. After all, most resorts seem to handle "authenticity" by creating a lot of fake atmosphere that looks authentic and appeals to the resort going crowd that pays the bills but is anything but authentic. So far so good but the big projects have yet to start.