How much access does Burke have to water? Is that an issue or is it mainly not enough terrain coverage (lack of pipe and guns) and an unwillingness to max out what they have?
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Burke Mtn sold to Jay Peak
- Thread starter noski
- Start date
from_the_NEK
Active member
Correct, Burlington-South Burlington does not contain 200,000 people. All of Chittenden County is only 156,000( http://2010.census.gov/2010census/popmap/ipmtext.php )
If you look a that NECTA map in the link, Burlington's metro area includes all of Chittenden County and a good share of Franklin County (St Albans, Swanton, etc) which adds quite a bit of population to the figure. If you are going to include those, then Waterbury and Vergennes should be included too. Really the entire champlain valley (Chittenden, Franklin, and Addison Counties = 240,000 people).
Edit: This "metro" area is a bit obsurd. It is like the metro area has been artificially inflated to boost numbers in order to make the city more attractive to business.
Using the same link to the census I provided above, I get a population of 400,000 for Hillsborough County in NH (the county that Manchester as well as Nashua). Merrimack County (where Concord is) has a population of 146,000.
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One of the best things that Northern Star did for Burke was that in 1996 or 1997 they spent a shit-ton of money to basically rebuild the snowmaking system and get the water withdrawal permits that were needed. Before then Burke relied on the single snowmaking pond right below the Willoughby Quad that was stream and spring-fed and would basically dry up after a few days of snowmaking. Northern Star built a dam on the Passumpsic River, installed a pumphouse, and placed about 2-3 miles of pipe from the River to Mid-Burke and the Pond so that they could recharge the Pond when needed. So water is no longer the issue.
They do rely on rental compressors and it is still a cobbled together system on that end, but it works.
The biggest thing has been paying for the labor and expense of making snow. They have good piping and, as Masskier has pointed out, updated guns and fanguns that they have added. So having a bigger budget is one thing that is needed.
Adding snowmaking to a few more runs is, in my mind, what remains really to help out. They could do it by simply running two sets of additional lines on the upper mountain--one that begins at Mid-Burke, runs up Dipper Doodle to Powderhorn and then up Wilderness (with perhaps a spur down Lew's Leap or perhaps running it up Lew's Leap) and the other up Lower Doug's or McHarg's and then up Doug's. The line along Toll Road/Deer Run has a tie-in for Doug's already, so someone contemplated doing this. The lower mountain is fine.
I think it is important to get a couple more top-to-bottom, well mid-mountain, routes with coverage because right now in a bad year you basically only have three main ways down. Adding these two other lines would boost that and also give more options because as folks know you ski many different trails to get down as opposed to one long straight line. Having other options with coverage, the ever-popular Powderhorn in particular, helps.
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...and it looks like Burke is becoming the "Cannon" thread of the summer of 2012. Although last year we had quite a Burke thread with the HSQ.
from_the_NEK
Active member
The only other place you used to see the kind of controversy you saw in last year's Cannon thread was occasional Killington threads. But then Highwaystar starting dilluting those by starting a new one every other day.
This Burke thread has legs and some good discussion but not the over the top controversy element. If the new ownership suddenly announced that they were going to build Six Flags NEK where the golf course had been planned, then we might start to approach the epicness of that Cannon thread.
bobbutts
New member
I like all the talk of metro areas. I guess the takeaway is that Manchester is much closer to much more population so it's much easier to assign a wide range of numbers to the "Metro" that aren't too far fetched. Some consider it part of the Megalopolis even, I think a reasonable argument considering it's commuting distance to Boston with nearly continuous populated areas in between them.
As some have alluded to, Burke has an uphill battle reaching the Burlington Market.
Jay, Smugs, Stowe,MRG, Bush, Bolton, Killington, all quicker to reach per google maps.
As some have alluded to, Burke has an uphill battle reaching the Burlington Market.
Jay, Smugs, Stowe,MRG, Bush, Bolton, Killington, all quicker to reach per google maps.
So with all this talk about Burke, who is going this season?
AdironRider
Well-known member
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Ill be there for an extended weekend. Going to be one of those Im going regardless of conditions things to scope it out and hit up Jay and Cannon on the same trip. Most likely mid-Feb.
ScottySkis
Well-known member
I be happy to go back I hear it like Platty, then I be their, I went 2 seasons ago but it was raining all day so I chose not to ski.
Masskier
New member
Yes, Thanks to Northern Star Burke has more than enough water. I think we are going to see a major expansion to Burke's snowmaking this year.
Masskier
New member
I was up at Burke this past weekend. Kingdom Trails were in great shape, the town was really buzzing with lots of Mtn Bikers. Up at the mid Burke parking lot were two huge pumps (I think). They looked old. I don't know if Burke was replacing them or rebuilding them. This could be the start of some of the upgrades to snow making that Jay mentioned when they bought Burke.
Could be either one. The pumps at the pond are pretty old I imagine and the booster pump on Bear Den is pretty old as well.
SAM is reporting that next week Jay and Burke will be offering their new pass combos and that Burke is going to have a 50% increase in snowmaking firepower this season, or 75-100 new guns.
http://www.saminfo.com/news/article.php?tid=5887
http://www.saminfo.com/news/article.php?tid=5887
riverc0il
New member
Nice! *thumbs up*
Curious to see what their season passes come in at. Next season I am still adventuring but by 2013-2014, I'll probably looking to get back into the season pass market. A Jay/Burke combo would be hard to beat. In addition to Burke being a great place to ski, having great trees, and being uncrowded... Burke would be a great option when conditions go south and skiing is groomers only, especially with a lot more snow making fire power.
Curious to see what their season passes come in at. Next season I am still adventuring but by 2013-2014, I'll probably looking to get back into the season pass market. A Jay/Burke combo would be hard to beat. In addition to Burke being a great place to ski, having great trees, and being uncrowded... Burke would be a great option when conditions go south and skiing is groomers only, especially with a lot more snow making fire power.
xwhaler
Active member
Very good deal.
riverc0il
New member
Only $50 more (before tax) for Burke which is a total no brainer if you are planning to get a Jay pass or if you plan to ski both Jay and Burke. What is not such a great deal is $749 (before 6% tax) for a Jay only pass. I think that is getting a little too high. Basically, add $50 to either of these prices for your total after tax. For some perspective, my pass in 2007-2008 was $600. So a 1/3 increase in five years. Not sure how that compares to other areas but 1/3 increase in five years seems like a lot to me. I don't know if I'd go for a Jay pass at $800 but if I did, the Burke upgrade for $850 would be a no brainer.
kingdom-tele
New member
with daily rates of $55...
$150/month
or
$90/month for midweek access
still waiting to hear if burke keeps their $25 sunday afternoons to take my daughter.
$1049 after Oct. wow.
