Bush asked to explain UK war memo

[dmc]

This is disturbing... Seems our president was determined to get Sadam - even if HE KNEW the evidence was flimsy...

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/05/11/britain.war.memo/index.html

A British official identified as "C" said that he had returned from a meeting in Washington and that "military action was now seen as inevitable" by U.S. officials.

"Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

 

[thetrailboss]

:roll:

Not surprising.

 

[dmc]

:roll:

Not surprising.

If Clinton can get impeached for lying about an affair with an intern...

Bush should go to jail for the deaths of 1600 Americans and untolled Iraqis...

 

[thetrailboss]

:roll:

Not surprising.

If Clinton can get impeached for lying about an affair with an intern...

Bush should go to jail for the deaths of 1600 Americans and untolled Iraqis...

You'd think so, but if you do so much as 'question' these folks, they get offended and call you anti-patriotic. :roll:

 

[dmc]

:roll:

Not surprising.

If Clinton can get impeached for lying about an affair with an intern...

Bush should go to jail for the deaths of 1600 Americans and untolled Iraqis...

You'd think so, but if you do so much as 'question' these folks, they get offended and call you anti-patriotic. :roll:

Funny... I don't think thats what our "founding Fathers" envisioned..
In fact it doesnt seem like this "administration" has much respect for the concepts laid down when this country was formed...

This is proof... Bush lied...

 

[Charlie Schuessler]

... Bush lied...

Tell us something we don't already know...

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Bush had to go in and topple Sadam....he promised his daddy he would remove this thorn in his legacy no matter what it took. He promised over cocktails on the deck of daddy's home in Maine.

 

[Paul]

Bush had to go in and topple Sadam....he promised his daddy he would remove this thorn in his legacy no matter what it took. He promised over cocktails on the deck of daddy's home in Maine.

I thought Dubya said that he only answers to the "Higher" father.

I think Jesus called him on the Batphone and said "Go for it!!!"

 

[Charlie Schuessler]

I thought Dubya said that he only answers to the "Higher" father.

I think Jesus called him on the Batphone and said "Go for it!!!"

HA, HA, HA.... :lol:

 

[thetrailboss]

I thought Dubya said that he only answers to the "Higher" father.

I think Jesus called him on the Batphone and said "Go for it!!!"

HA, HA, HA.... :lol:

Same reaction from me...

 

[dmc]

Bush is my shepherd; I dwell in want.
He maketh logs to be cut down in national forests.
He leadeth trucks into the still wilderness.
He restoreth my fears.
He leadeth me in the paths of international disgrace for his ego's sake.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of pollution and war,
I will find no exit, for thou art in office.
Thy tax cuts for the rich and thy media control, they discomfort me.
Thou preparest an agenda of deception in the presence of thy religion.
Thou anointest my head with foreign oil.
My health insurance runneth out.
Surely megalomania and false patriotism shall follow me all the days of thy term,
And my jobless child shall dwell in my basement forever.

 

[thetrailboss]

Not really related...but the thing that was really sad was that the govt. let United just walk away from their employee's pension funds Pretty sad day.

 

[dmc]

Not really related...but the thing that was really sad was that the govt. let United just walk away from their employee's pension funds Pretty sad day.

Why should the Gov care about the working class...??

 

[madman]

The sad part is it wont stop with United.You cant trust your government or your employer anymore.Promises are only good as long as they benefit them. Or at least dont hurt to bad

 

[madman]

By the way Madman has always been a play on my last name,however after these stories I think there may be more to it

 

[ctenidae]

On the Bush front- No real surprise. I am no longer shocked, surprised, or uspet by any shenanigans pulled by the current administration. At least with Clinton, you could understand why he lied. I mean, Monica isn't all that hot.

On the pension front, there are likely more on the way:
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...A511-4AF6-A008-C028405A0919}&garden=&minisite

Whole lot of underfunded pension plans in cash-strapped companies.

 

[jjmcgo]

Patriotism

"You'd think so, but if you do so much as 'question' these folks, they get offended and call you anti-patriotic."

That's because when your nation is attacked and your leadership sets a plan of action that involves war and you don't support the national initiative, you give aid and comfort to the enemy(ies). That's being unpatriotic.
It's unfortunate but part of our system of government that national elections can occur during war. This gives rise to politicians challenging the national plan, as happened in the last presidential election. That's part of our system of democracy and an acceptable exception to supporting your country unfailingly when our troops are in harm's way.
However, the election is over and the administration's course has been affirmed by the national electorate.
At this point, there is very little that can be said in opposition to the war that could be considered patriotic. Most of the opposition to the war is based in political disappointment and bitterness.
There was more than one reason to invade Iraq. Thousands of bodies have been found in mass graves. Much greater atrocities took place in Abu Ghraib than the prisoner embarassments perpetrated by a few of our troops. The list goes on and on. We have brought democracy for the first time to Afganistan and Iraq. There's quite a record of accomplishment if you'll put down your Times and Globes and pay attention.
I realize this thread was trending lefty/unpatriotic before I weighed in on the side of the USA. Why don't we stick to hiking? Leftist rants don't go unchallenged in America anymore.

 

[Greg]

Re: Patriotism

That's because when your nation is attacked and your leadership sets a plan of action that involves war and you don't support the national initiative, you give aid and comfort to the enemy(ies). That's being unpatriotic.
It's unfortunate but part of our system of government that national elections can occur during war. This gives rise to politicians challenging the national plan, as happened in the last presidential election. That's part of our system of democracy and an acceptable exception to supporting your country unfailingly when our troops are in harm's way.
However, the election is over and the administration's course has been affirmed by the national electorate.
At this point, there is very little that can be said in opposition to the war that could be considered patriotic. Most of the opposition to the war is based in political disappointment and bitterness.
There was more than one reason to invade Iraq. Thousands of bodies have been found in mass graves. Much greater atrocities took place in Abu Ghraib than the prisoner embarassments perpetrated by a few of our troops. The list goes on and on. We have brought democracy for the first time to Afganistan and Iraq. There's quite a record of accomplishment if you'll put down your Times and Globes and pay attention.
I realize this thread was trending lefty/unpatriotic before I weighed in on the side of the USA. Why don't we stick to hiking? Leftist rants don't go unchallenged in America anymore.

I typically stay out of political discussions, but thank you for bringing some balance here and I happen to agree with you. I'll go back in my hole now...

 

[hammer]

Re: Patriotism

With all due respect, jjmcgo, I have to differ with a number of your statements...

That's because when your nation is attacked and your leadership sets a plan of action that involves war and you don't support the national initiative, you give aid and comfort to the enemy(ies). That's being unpatriotic.

I think that you can support the troops and complain to the politicians about what they are fighting for without being unpatriotic. Being patriotic is about supporting our country, not necessarily about unconditional support of the decisions of its elected leadership.

However, the election is over and the administration's course has been affirmed by the national electorate.

Just because a slim majority of the electorate voted for Bush it does not mean that they agreed with all of his policies and actions...

There was more than one reason to invade Iraq.

The reason why we initially invaded Iraq was that we (the public) were told that Saddam had WMD and that he was a threat to the US. All of the other reasons (good, bad, or otherwise) came up after we were at war.

We have brought democracy for the first time to Afghanistan and Iraq.

I'd agree that this is a very good thing...but...

I believe that going into Afghanistan was the right thing to do since we knew that Al Qaeda was being harbored there and Al Qaeda is a threat to the US. I still do not understand, however, why we went into Iraq; there are a lot of other countries that need democracy, why are we not invading those countries and replacing their governments as well?

I realize this thread was trending lefty/unpatriotic before I weighed in on the side of the USA. Why don't we stick to hiking? Leftist rants don't go unchallenged in America anymore.

Reasonable people like a good debate...

I may be considered one of the "left leaning" people on the forum, but I like to read other's opinions (as long as they aren't just trolls). Your response is appreciated (even if I don't necessarily agree).

 

[thetrailboss]

Re: Patriotism

I will defend my POV, which was used to begin this post.

That's because when your nation is attacked and your leadership sets a plan of action that involves war and you don't support the national initiative, you give aid and comfort to the enemy(ies). That's being unpatriotic.

I disagree completely. Dissent is a part of democracy...that's what makes it slow to respond to threats. Our country is NOT a dictatorship.

No good American supports "the enemy." In 2002, we were told it was "terrorism." Did we go after the terrorists? No. We went after Saddam, who is a bad guy as well. Now we have stirred up more anger in the Arab world against us. It would have been better to think through before rushing to war...there is a lot more terrorism now...granted it's in Iraq, but Americans are being killed daily now.

It's unfortunate but part of our system of government that national elections can occur during war. This gives rise to politicians challenging the national plan, as happened in the last presidential election. That's part of our system of democracy and an acceptable exception to supporting your country unfailingly when our troops are in harm's way.

So what do we do? Get rid of elections? I agree that our troops are getting the short end of the stick...in fact some in power are trying to cut their medical aid, benefits, pay, and equipment. :roll: They get the shaft and yet they STILL believe in this country as much as I do. If Bush and the other hawks are so committed to this war, why aren't their kids going to fight it?

However, the election is over and the administration's course has been affirmed by the national electorate.

Disagree. :-? Read the Wall Street Journal who, in a joint poll with NBC last week, found that 53 percent of Americans surveyed now feel that the war was not "worth it." We elected a PRESIDENT we didn't have a referendum on the war...in fact, Bush and Rove did a good job getting people to focus on other supposed 'threats' like gays/lesbians :roll:

At this point, there is very little that can be said in opposition to the war that could be considered patriotic.

So the fact that there was some bad intelligence and that people made mistakes justifies what is happening now?

There was more than one reason to invade Iraq. Thousands of bodies have been found in mass graves. Much greater atrocities took place in Abu Ghraib than the prisoner embarassments perpetrated by a few of our troops. The list goes on and on.

This was NOT what we were told...we were told WMD and links to Al Qaeda.

Is this a good reason to go to war (crimes against humanity), you bet...but where were we in Rwanda and the Sudan then? :-?

We have brought democracy for the first time to Afganistan and Iraq. There's quite a record of accomplishment if you'll put down your Times and Globes and pay attention.
I realize this thread was trending lefty/unpatriotic before I weighed in on the side of the USA. Why don't we stick to hiking? Leftist rants don't go unchallenged in America anymore.

I agree that democracy in those countries is a good thing, but in order for it to be truly sustainable, THEY have to bring it about themselves. Otherwise, the governments will have no legitimacy and we'll be right back to where we begun.

And no, I don't read the Times or the Globe. I pay attention to a number of news outlets, some "conservative" and some "liberal." I also have traveled overseas and sometimes see what they think about it.

NO rants should go unchallenged...CONSERVATIVE or LIBERAL. Our country has freedom of speech remember...that can be burdonsome at times, but it is our system. :beer:

With that said, I respectfully disagree with your pov.