hammer
Active member
Wow...two responses to an opposing viewpoint in 15 minutes...
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Bush asked to explain UK war memo
- Thread starter dmc
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hammer
Active member
Re: Overwhelmed
That's a good one... :lol:jjmcgo said:
riverc0il
New member
total and utter horse crap. that's the most unamerican thing i've ever heard, to disagree with the government's plan of action is unpatriotic? speaking out against action's our government makes, actions that one may believe damage the country's standing in the world is actually aiding the enemy? if you consider terrorists our enemy, there are many intellectual circles that believe we further the terrorist cause and increase their ranks by our actions in iraq... i fail to see how opposing a strategy is aiding this type of enemy.
I said I was done
But you had to provoke me. I can't think of a better way to put it than you did. You are running around in intellectual circles trying to justify giving aid to the enemy. We had our national referendum on the war in November. We re-elected our President. This is our national policy.
But you had to provoke me. I can't think of a better way to put it than you did. You are running around in intellectual circles trying to justify giving aid to the enemy. We had our national referendum on the war in November. We re-elected our President. This is our national policy.
riverc0il
New member
your tieing leftist political thought and disagreement with government to a word such as unpatriotic in this comment again smacks of a lack of respect of differing points of view and freedom of speech. to suggest that people voicing concerns and disagreeing with the government is unpatriotic is an unamerican comment, imo.
you ask why we don't just stick to hiking despite having gotten involved in the thread in the first place?
finally, to suggest leftist thoughts do not go challenged in this country any more is rediculous to an extreme. discussion and disagreement is a good thing and it's happening everywhere to a spectacular degree. and that is a beautiful and very american thing. however, to qualify well thought out and well argued points of view as "rants" suggests you haven't even considered the opposing point of view. you can argue against a point of view and for your own arguement without dismissing someone's well thought out discussion as a "rant."
pedxing
Member
The London memo surprised me not at all. It was clear to me at the time that Bush had decided on war, and was working on selling it. It was clear to me that he shrilly denounced Saddams compliance with inspections in the months prior to war because he was afraid the inspections were working and would rob of him his chance to go to war. He was counting on a pro-government, pro-war reflex to kick in once he went to war. People rally around the flag and the President when there is a crisis. Support may flag over a few years.
Slinging around slurs, like "un-patriotic" over protests against the war is deeply troubling, but it is precisely the kind of thing Bush was counting on.
Most of the mass graves and the worst atrocities cited in justification of the war were filled, or being filled when Reagan, BushI and Rumsfeld were backing him selling hims stuff and providing him with military intelligence.
Jane Fonda's trip to North Vietnam crossed the line from dissent over policy into the un-patriotic, but no one here is praising the terrorists in Iraq, calling American POWs liars, or posing for pictures with suicide bombers.
I must say, as a flag waver, a long time poster and ardent critic of Bush and his war, I am troubled and surprised that our administrator would endorse accusations of being un-patriotic to reasoned debate and posts. It's one thing to launch an argument, its another to throw such labels out in this manner.
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Let me clarify here. I happen to agree with jjmcgo's opinion that Bush's foreign policy is the right approach. I do not share his views that feeling otherwise is unpatriotic despite my quoting of his post and indicating argreement. I simply perused his post and did not fully digest it until after reading it a second time. I apologize for the hasty reply.pedxing said:
Re: Patriotism
I hate debates online. I stay in my hole. :wink:Greg said:
pedxing
Member
Got it Greg. Thanks for clarifying.
ctenidae
Active member
Notice there has still been no explanation of or rebuttal to the memo. The lack of a response from the White House, while not surprising, is certainly worrisome. Ofrtunately, they had the fillibuster froo-fra available to distract the populace.
Regardless of the hindsight justifications for the invasion, the fact remains the first three or four reasons we were given for the invasion were false. Hussein didn't ahve any WMD, Iraq didn't support bin Laden, al Qaeda didn't have any base in Iraq. Only after all of those reasons were shown to be false did the "Well, Hussein was a really bad guy" reasoning come about. That's what's disturbing to me, almost as disturbing as the ability of many people to forget those bits of information.
Regardless of the hindsight justifications for the invasion, the fact remains the first three or four reasons we were given for the invasion were false. Hussein didn't ahve any WMD, Iraq didn't support bin Laden, al Qaeda didn't have any base in Iraq. Only after all of those reasons were shown to be false did the "Well, Hussein was a really bad guy" reasoning come about. That's what's disturbing to me, almost as disturbing as the ability of many people to forget those bits of information.
BrockVond
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Re: Patriotism
Incredible.
jjmcgo said:
Incredible.
dmc
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ctenidae said:
Bush will only comment on some things...
Like Amnesty International blasting the US in their report..
His administration is an information quelling machine..
Our friendships around the world are crumbling while we force feed our brand of democracy down peoples throats...
We force countries out of theocracies while our government jams their religious ideal down our throats on a daily basis...
We preach that we are saving lives from dictators while fighting a war against foriegn fighters in those very countries... Killing off civilians right and left...
We continue to pander to these oil producing countries that control an S-load of our debt...
Meanwhile - THOUSANDS of our men and women have died in the name of fighting terrorism which is a thin disguise for regiem change in countries we feel we don't like or trust...
I'm disgusted....
Countries will follow our lead - the countries that have nukes are just doing what they see us do...
Do as I say - not as I do...
ctenidae
Active member
ctenidae said:
Man...this is turning out to be a kind of "Watergate" of our generation... :roll:
dmc
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thetrailboss said:
We can only hope it leads to his impeachment... But somehow I doubt it...
ctenidae
Active member
It might delay his coronation, though.
Stephen
New member
LOL you guys sound like the right wing nut jobs of the CLinton years.
Of course, the only difference is that Clinton commited an impeachable offense, and was impeached.
Too bad he wasn't tried for his perjury.
-Stephen
Of course, the only difference is that Clinton commited an impeachable offense, and was impeached.
Too bad he wasn't tried for his perjury.
-Stephen
dmc
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Stephen said:
WHAT?????!?!?!?!
your outta your mind.. If this is true and he took us to a war with lies....
He's gotta go...
That is an impeachable offense...
Stephen said:
OK, so fooling around in the Oval Office with an intern is a more serious offense than lying to the world and endangering the lives of American troops and starting an international conflict? :blink:
I'm not going to condone what Clinton did, but I think that the stakes are MUCH higher with what might have gone down regarding pre-war intelligence and preparation (or lack thereof). Now we're talking about national security here.
This kind of logic makes no sense to me...
