Bush asked to explain UK war memo

[riverc0il]

exactly hammer. the reason has changed numerous times and is currently different than the innitial reasoning given. to date, the admin has not come clean and sources indicate deception without valid reasons.

 

[Stephen]

It's all about oil, remenber? The $.75/gallon prices prove that.

Oh, wait. That's just the discount I get with my GOP membership card.

:lol:

-Stephen

 

[dmc]

He only hates the part of America that disagrees with him... like a good liberal should. :beer:

Remember: tolerance means accepthing only that which agrees with everybody else you like.

-Stephen

CLICK FOR STORY

The president proudly considers himself a politician who forges ahead, despite the obstacles, but some Republicans are worried that Bush's resolve could cost them control of Congress in 2006 or 2008.

They fear his advisers are ignoring the signs of voter discontent, moving too slowly to adjust their strategies to new realities. Some top Republicans also blame GOP congressional leaders for focusing on legislation that seems to help a select few while making no progress on issues that matter to many.

These Republicans include lawmakers and consultants who are allies of the White House. Most spoke on condition of anonymity, fearing reprisal from the administration.
"They might not realize what a challenge we face here," said Joe Gaylord, a Republican consultant close to former House Speaker Newt Gingrich. "The challenge is they're in campaign mode. Americans can be patient for a while, but when they see nothing going on, they get to wondering, 'What's going on here?'"

 

[ctenidae]

Conditions are similar to when the Dems lost control of Congress. Let's hope history repeats itself, dmc.

Stephen- Why is it a bad thing to hold an opinion and think that people who disagree with you are wrong? Isn't that the point of an opinion? The Conservative war cry of "Liberals hate America!" is well beneath your usually astute thoughts. I can't imagine you are 100% on board with every item on the Republican agenda. If you disagree with any part of it, doesn't that make you an America-hating Liberal (gasp!), too?

Also, I notice that, to date, no one has come up with a decent, or any, for that matter, explanation of the bait-and-switch on reasons for going to war. Are the media so scared, and the Dems so spineless, that no one's pushing this issue? Is the Republican machine so powerful? Doesn't that give anyone else the heebie-jeebies?

 

[dmc]

I notice that, to date, no one has come up with a decent, or any, for that matter, explanation of the bait-and-switch on reasons for going to war. Are the media so scared, and the Dems so spineless, that no one's pushing this issue? Is the Republican machine so powerful? Doesn't that give anyone else the heebie-jeebies?

I've never felt more political manipulation then now..
Anybody notice that now the election is over the terror alerts have stopped? I guess it's not important to be scared anymore cause the election is over...

 

[thetrailboss]

He only hates the part of America that disagrees with him... like a good liberal should. :beer:

Remember: tolerance means accepthing only that which agrees with everybody else you like.

-Stephen

Yes, folks need to look beyond party identification and see that we are all AMERICANS. This is BOTH Republicans and Democrats now...and equating hate with liberals is the kind of :flame: :uzi: rhetoric that must stop.

Also, those in power need to realize that it is in the best interest of our country to have folks question what is being done. This is NOT Unpatriotic... :flag:

 

[dmc]

Also, those in power need to realize that it is in the best interest of our country to have folks question what is being done. This is NOT Unpatriotic... :flag:

It's funny... I'm constantly bombarded with conservatives saying we(liberals) don't pay enough attention to the soldiers and the good things about the Iraq "war"..
I seek the soldiers out and read their interviews.. Funny thing is - lots of them actually like the fact the debate is raging.. They realize it's part of what makes the USA great.. And is something that they fight to protect..

 

[JimG.]

Are the media so scared, and the Dems so spineless, that no one's pushing this issue? Is the Republican machine so powerful? Doesn't that give anyone else the heebie-jeebies?

One day it will occur to you that these groups are all in it together; all in it for their best interests, not yours; all part of the problem, none part of the solution.

 

[ctenidae]

I do, JimG, I do. That's part of what gives me the heebie-jeebies.

 

[JimG.]

That's part of what gives me the heebie-jeebies.

Not a bad thing. One day you, and the rest of us who usually put up with what goes on, will get totally fed up with what is happening and we will take action.
The majority of the country is here with us, in the middle of most issues, or "liberal" about some and "conservative" about others. I've posted before about my faith that the silent majority will rise up one day and force our government to work "for the people", not narrow special interests.
It's coming...it'll happen in the blink of an eye and there won't be any going back.

 

[riverc0il]

JimG, that actually happened back in the late 1800s and early 1900s during the labor movement. politicians and the big money makers realized that in order to keep their control, they had to control the low man on the proverbial totem pole. what happened? american what from upper class and working class with a fine line of seperation to a very very small upper class, a rather small "underclass" and a constantly expanding middle class with media portrays allowing people to believe they are "upper-middle class" when they are anything but. the middle man was created in which he has just enough to get by and even quite a few creature comforts... but too much to loose. it threw a bone at the demanding and growling american and shut him up. here, have the freedom of speech and complain to your hearts content but don't take action. sit down, shut up, and watch TV. here's american gladiators (props to those who recognize that line).

i don't believe there will be action or people rising up or a silent majority take over. maybe it's the pecimism of my generation showing through (part of the problem, not the solution for sure), but until people are willing to risk their creature comforts (really really risk it i mean) and make some personal sacrifice and stop watching TV and actually get up and do something, it's only going to get worse.

my hope is it does get worse. i hope it gets so bad the whole thing collapses in on itself and that's when people will realize how bad it is and do something. the natural tendency of humanity does not trend towards action and fixing a problem until it's generally too late to solve something in a sensible manner. just my gen-x styled opinion.

 

[JimG.]

JimG, that actually happened back in the late 1800s and early 1900s during the labor movement. politicians and the big money makers realized that in order to keep their control, they had to control the low man on the proverbial totem pole. what happened? american what from upper class and working class with a fine line of seperation to a very very small upper class, a rather small "underclass" and a constantly expanding middle class with media portrays allowing people to believe they are "upper-middle class" when they are anything but. the middle man was created in which he has just enough to get by and even quite a few creature comforts... but too much to loose. it threw a bone at the demanding and growling american and shut him up. here, have the freedom of speech and complain to your hearts content but don't take action. sit down, shut up, and watch TV. here's american gladiators (props to those who recognize that line).

i don't believe there will be action or people rising up or a silent majority take over. maybe it's the pecimism of my generation showing through (part of the problem, not the solution for sure), but until people are willing to risk their creature comforts (really really risk it i mean) and make some personal sacrifice and stop watching TV and actually get up and do something, it's only going to get worse.

my hope is it does get worse. i hope it gets so bad the whole thing collapses in on itself and that's when people will realize how bad it is and do something. the natural tendency of humanity does not trend towards action and fixing a problem until it's generally too late to solve something in a sensible manner. just my gen-x styled opinion.

You are obviously a thoughtful person, rare in any generation. Your reference to the labor movement is interesting in that it shows more of the political trickery that we still live with.

At the risk of sounding like an anarchist or paranoid, the 2 party politcal system is brilliantly designed to obscure real issues behind bipartisan and polar bickering; keep the masses consumed with disagreement and they won't think about the real issues. That's what we have now. Read some of these threads and you would think certain people are blood enemies; I don't think that's the case, but it is the illusion that those entrenched in the political arena want.

My vision of majority uprising is akin to masses of zombies suddenly rising from the dead and seeing the light of day. Humans can do anything when they work as a team with a common goal. Once masses bond against a government, it either changes or falls. It's happened throughout history, why not here?

 

[ctenidae]

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time. That should be sufficient for most purposes.

 

[jjmcgo]

Rivercoil wrote:

"my hope is it does get worse. i hope it gets so bad the whole thing collapses in on itself."

Earlier in this thread, he argued with me when I said his words were unpatriotic and gave comfort to our enemies.
Let him be known by his words.

BTW, I saw this picture on another website today. Let's try to remember what this war is all about: We were attacked.
http://www.jeffhead.com/attack/inwindows.jpg

 

[Stephen]

Liberals have positioned themselves to look good when America looks bad. As such, they ROOT for America to fall apart at the seems. Some even go so far as to help it along (ref. Durbin's thoughts on the military).

You are for America or against it. Even in Clinton's WORST days, I never prayed for things to get worse, just so Clinton would look bad. Rooting for the country to fail IS unpatriotic, sedition, and, in some cases, treasonous, IMO

-Stephen

 

[dmc]

Re: Rivercoil wrote:

BTW, I saw this picture on another website today. Let's try to remember what this war is all about: We were attacked.
http://www.jeffhead.com/attack/inwindows.jpg

Yeah... about that.... Ummm... Sadam did not attack us on 911.... that would've been Bin Laden...

Have we captured him yet? Let's see... I'm going to say - NO...

 

[Stephen]

Re: Rivercoil wrote:

Have we captured him yet? Let's see... I'm going to say - NO...

Because we have to pay homage to your beloved UN and not just go ILLEGALLY into the country he is hiding and wipe him out.

So, which is it that you want? Violation of a nation's sovereignty (which you argue we did in Iraq) or waiting to kill bin Laden at the proper time (which you complain above isn't happening)?

Typcial no-win situation, eh?

-Stephen

 

[dmc]

Liberals have positioned themselves to look good when America looks bad.

Not this liberal... I want America to be great!
I want to be able to travel to other countries without being harrassed...
I want my friends to prosper and have jobs!
I want people to not have to choose between food or prescription drugs...
I want to know that my brother and sisterinlaw will not have to go back to Iraq...
I want the erosion of the middle class to stop...

You seem to know a lot about liberals... Probably form Sean Hannity and Coulter...

 

[dmc]

Re: Rivercoil wrote:

Have we captured him yet? Let's see... I'm going to say - NO...

Because we have to pay homage to your beloved UN and not just go ILLEGALLY into the country he is hiding and wipe him out.

So, which is it that you want? Violation of a nation's sovereignty (which you argue we did in Iraq) or waiting to kill bin Laden at the proper time (which you complain above isn't happening)?

Typcial no-win situation, eh?

-Stephen

My beloved UN!?!?!?!?! Why do you keep generalizing about me... It makes it tough to respond...

We violated Iraqs sovereignty when we invaded...
Whats the difference...??

Oh - thats right Pakistan has nukes...

I want Bin Laden.... It makes me mad that we spent all our resources on fulling GWBs destiny of taking Sadam instead of taking out Bin Laden..

 

[thetrailboss]

Re: Rivercoil wrote:

Have we captured him yet? Let's see... I'm going to say - NO...

Because we have to pay homage to your beloved UN and not just go ILLEGALLY into the country he is hiding and wipe him out.

So, which is it that you want? Violation of a nation's sovereignty (which you argue we did in Iraq) or waiting to kill bin Laden at the proper time (which you complain above isn't happening)?

Typcial no-win situation, eh?

-Stephen

Sovereignty is an issue that goes beyond the UN and predates the institution. Let's put it this way: would you want Iranians to just enter this country in the name of arresting a terrorist or whatever?