Call to Free Heelers

[deadheadskier]

Yeah, I could totally see a minimal amount of force ripping the binding from the base plate or snapping the running bars that connect the toe piece to the heal piece. There's nothing about the Duke's design that says, "this is an okay option for use tele skiing".

 

[Scruffy]

Just STOP thinking about dropping into a tele turn on your Dukes or any AT setup. The tele turn is NOT about tipping the toe up on a bent knee! For a tele turn to be executed, the ball of the rear foot needs to be the driving force. That means a boot and binding that is designed to flex so that the ball of the rear foot is flat while the heel is lifted. The hardest thing for newbs to get is the 50/50 weight stance. Most newbs think the are doing the 50/50 weight distribution, when in fact they are usually 90/10. The rear foot drives the tele turn.
And, anyone saying you can just alpine turn, should fess up up and tell the whole truth. Parallel turns on even the most robust tele gear is no where the same as modern Alpine gear.

Tele is a commitment, if you want to get good at it. Switch hitting makes you a rock star on Alpine, but does nothing for making you a rock star on tele.

 

[jaytrem]

Just STOP thinking about dropping into a tele turn on your Dukes or any AT setup. The tele turn is NOT about tipping the toe up on a bent knee!

Not yet it isn't. At one time they probably said ballet isn't real dancing, dancing on your toes n' s#!t. Now it's all the rage.

 

[witch hobble]

To the OP:

how hard it is to pick up will depend a lot on your true alpine skill level, with a few other factors. Have you done much Nordic skiing? How is your balance? Your flexibility (both mental and physical)? How strong are your quads? How willing are you to devote time and energy to a new skill or discipline? Will your friends and family disown you for your gear or ditch you cause you're slow? What end do you seek, fun? Touring? Mastery of the turn? Do you even own a wool hat with floppy ears? Patchouli? Granola? There is a lot to consider.

you can have much the same experience you have now as an alpine skier: you can get on a lift, you get off, you ski down a trail....but now there is the real possibility that you will fall forward directly onto the tips of your skis. You might flail wildly and constantly be bracing with your poles like you haven't in years. Even though "no one cares that you tele" the fact of the matter is few things in our sport attract the eyes of and noses of the lift line vultures like the sight and scent of a flailing freeheeler, so develop a thick skin or avoid skiing under the lift.

all body parts you mention will be sore....sometimes for days. Muscle strain, not joint pain. If the pain makes you want it more, then you know you've arrived. Have fun!

 

[deadheadskier]

Do you even own a wool hat with floppy ears? Patchouli? Granola? There is a lot to consider.

you forgot Johnson Woolen Mills pants

 

[dlague]

Just STOP thinking about dropping into a tele turn on your Dukes or any AT setup. The tele turn is NOT about tipping the toe up on a bent knee! For a tele turn to be executed, the ball of the rear foot needs to be the driving force. That means a boot and binding that is designed to flex so that the ball of the rear foot is flat while the heel is lifted. The hardest thing for newbs to get is the 50/50 weight stance. Most newbs think the are doing the 50/50 weight distribution, when in fact they are usually 90/10. The rear foot drives the tele turn.
And, anyone saying you can just alpine turn, should fess up up and tell the whole truth. Parallel turns on even the most robust tele gear is no where the same as modern Alpine gear.

Tele is a commitment, if you want to get good at it. Switch hitting makes you a rock star on Alpine, but does nothing for making you a rock star on tele.

Well this will be a new experience and I will be switch hitting at least for now. My brother-in-law is a very good tele skier and I probably will ski with his a few times to get the hang of it. Then again I know people who switch hit between skiing and snowboarding - right Cannonball? At least tele and alpine are at least a little bit similar.

To the OP:

how hard it is to pick up will depend a lot on your true alpine skill level, with a few other factors. Have you done much Nordic skiing? How is your balance? Your flexibility (both mental and physical)? How strong are your quads? How willing are you to devote time and energy to a new skill or discipline? Will your friends and family disown you for your gear or ditch you cause you're slow? What end do you seek, fun? Touring? Mastery of the turn? Do you even own a wool hat with floppy ears? Patchouli? Granola? There is a lot to consider.

you can have much the same experience you have now as an alpine skier: you can get on a lift, you get off, you ski down a trail....but now there is the real possibility that you will fall forward directly onto the tips of your skis. You might flail wildly and constantly be bracing with your poles like you haven't in years. Even though "no one cares that you tele" the fact of the matter is few things in our sport attract the eyes of and noses of the lift line vultures like the sight and scent of a flailing freeheeler, so develop a thick skin or avoid skiing under the lift.

all body parts you mention will be sore....sometimes for days. Muscle strain, not joint pain. If the pain makes you want it more, then you know you've arrived. Have fun!

Well after that, I am excited! I will work on getting the wool hat and patchouli oil! Should I get wool pants too?

 

[ts01]

Just STOP thinking about dropping into a tele turn on your Dukes or any AT setup. The tele turn is NOT about tipping the toe up on a bent knee! For a tele turn to be executed, the ball of the rear foot needs to be the driving force. That means a boot and binding that is designed to flex so that the ball of the rear foot is flat while the heel is lifted. The hardest thing for newbs to get is the 50/50 weight stance. Most newbs think the are doing the 50/50 weight distribution, when in fact they are usually 90/10. The rear foot drives the tele turn.
....

Quoted for truth.

And, anyone saying you can just alpine turn, should fess up up and tell the whole truth. Parallel turns on even the most robust tele gear is no where the same as modern Alpine gear.
...

Would have agreed before switching over to NTN. Now, IMHO p-turn on NTN (blue springs set at 2 or 3) is quite near. Not 100% but remarkably more solid than any 75mm binding I've skied.

And to the OP - hope you enjoy the learning process and stick with it, it's a lot of fun. You might want to check out this classic reference -- http://www.amazon.com/Allen-Really-Telemark-Revised-Better/dp/076274586X.

 

[dlague]

And to the OP - hope you enjoy the learning process and stick with it, it's a lot of fun. You might want to check out this classic reference -- http://www.amazon.com/Allen-Really-Telemark-Revised-Better/dp/076274586X.

I will check it out! At $8.95 on a kindle it is a no brainer!

 

[Cannonball]

Then again I know people who switch hit between skiing and snowboarding - right Cannonball? At least tele and alpine are at least a little bit similar.

Yeah, I tele'd for a for a few years too. I really enjoyed it a lot, but it didn't make sense for me to stick with it. My main interest in tele was for backcountry. I spent a lot of time learning on-piste so that I would be good enough to take on any conditions in the BC. Ultimately I decided that I was never going to be as comfortable on tele gear when the BC conditions got really rough. So I sold the tele gear and bought both AT and splitboard setups. For easy BC stuff I have really lightweight gear (soft boots, NNN bindings, etc). That's the most comfortable option for a long day of touring moderate hilly terrain.

I definitely encourage you to give it a go! (especially with free gear). The time I spent on tele absolutely improved my alpine skiing.

 

[dlague]

Yeah, I tele'd for a for a few years too. I really enjoyed it a lot, but it didn't make sense for me to stick with it. My main interest in tele was for backcountry. I spent a lot of time learning on-piste so that I would be good enough to take on any conditions in the BC. Ultimately I decided that I was never going to be as comfortable on tele gear when the BC conditions got really rough. So I sold the tele gear and bought both AT and splitboard setups. For easy BC stuff I have really lightweight gear (soft boots, NNN bindings, etc). That's the most comfortable option for a long day of touring moderate hilly terrain.

I definitely encourage you to give it a go! (especially with free gear). The time I spent on tele absolutely improved my alpine skiing.

Tried the boots and they are a size too small! So .... started looking for boots and I found two types one a more hard shell boot like Garmont or Scarpa and then I found a back country boot Fischer BCX 675 - Rossi makes one similar. The back country boot is a cross between a cross country boot and a telemark boot. I have read some reviews of people telemark skiing with them but they use them for more back country comfort.

Thoughts?

 

[Cannonball]

Tried the boots and they are a size too small! So .... started looking for boots and I found two types one a more hard shell boot like Garmont or Scarpa and then I found a back country boot Fischer BCX 675 - Rossi makes one similar. The back country boot is a cross between a cross country boot and a telemark boot. I have read some reviews of people telemark skiing with them but they use them for more back country comfort.

Thoughts?

You'll probably get more detailed info from the real tele skiers here. But in general it's exactly as you thought.....

The Fischer BCX 675 (and similar) are not really a resort boot. Although they are definitely on the beefy side for BC Touring boots.

The Scarpas, Garmonts, etc are more similar to the strength and stiffness of what you are used to in an Alpine boot (although there is a spectrum in each of their lines).

Haha, this is the danger of "free" equipment. One minute it's free, and the next minute you're about to shell out $300 on boots you never knew you needed.

 

[dlague]

You'll probably get more detailed info from the real tele skiers here. But in general it's exactly as you thought.....

The Fischer BCX 675 (and similar) are not really a resort boot. Although they are definitely on the beefy side for BC Touring boots.

The Scarpas, Garmonts, etc are more similar to the strength and stiffness of what you are used to in an Alpine boot (although there is a spectrum in each of their lines).

Haha, this is the danger of "free" equipment. One minute it's free, and the next minute you're about to shell out $300 on boots you never knew you needed.

How true! Early excitement of the "Free" part followed by the "Oh Shit" when you find out the costs of replacing gear.

 

[Scruffy]

Tried the boots and they are a size too small! So .... started looking for boots and I found two types one a more hard shell boot like Garmont or Scarpa and then I found a back country boot Fischer BCX 675 - Rossi makes one similar. The back country boot is a cross between a cross country boot and a telemark boot. I have read some reviews of people telemark skiing with them but they use them for more back country comfort.

Thoughts?

Tell us what tele skis and bindings you were given and what your ultimate goals with this equipment are, i.e. resort or B.C. or both. What boots came with them, albeit too small?

Are you a small, med, or large kinda guy?

 

[dlague]

Tell us what tele skis and bindings you were given and what your ultimate goals with this equipment are, i.e. resort or B.C. or both. What boots came with them, albeit too small?

Are you a small, med, or large kinda guy?

I am close to 6 feet in height and around 195 (hopefully lower by ski season). The skis are K2 World Piste (174) (mid to late 2000's) with a Targa binding. The boots are Scarpa (size 9.5). I will try to post pictures.

I currently ski a 179.

As far as goals, none really. I have a season pass at Cannon so I will become familiar with terrain there and thought that switching it up now and then might make that much more interesting. As mentioned earlier, I know others that telemark 100% of the time and hope to leverage their experience.

 

[ts01]

Avoid the BCX675 style boots and stick with a modern hardshell Scarpa, Garmont (Scott), or BD 75mm boot 3- or 4-buckle boot.. Should be able to find good deals over the summer and as folks switch to NTN.

The free boots that are too small - is this based on a shell fit or with liners? If with liners, with or without footbeds? Are the liners heat moldable? If the shell fit is right (no more than two fingers between heel and back of the boot, with your bare foot snugged up against the toe), then you might be able to get a good fit by fiddling around with these factors, or by replacing the current liner with a new Intuition liner and molding it to your own foot (highly recommended).

Other thoughts: K2 tele skis are "long for their length" so your 174 might be closer to the 179's you're used to. (I've had K2 174cms that are the same length as Salomon 180's). Either way this is a great ski for learning, but at your size you might eventually find it a little short or soft. YMMV.

 

[dlague]

Avoid the BCX675 style boots and stick with a modern hardshell Scarpa, Garmont (Scott), or BD 75mm boot 3- or 4-buckle boot.. Should be able to find good deals over the summer and as folks switch to NTN.

The free boots that are too small - is this based on a shell fit or with liners? If with liners, with or without footbeds? Are the liners heat moldable? If the shell fit is right (no more than two fingers between heel and back of the boot, with your bare foot snugged up against the toe), then you might be able to get a good fit by fiddling around with these factors, or by replacing the current liner with a new Intuition liner and molding it to your own foot (highly recommended).

Other thoughts: K2 tele skis are "long for their length" so your 174 might be closer to the 179's you're used to. (I've had K2 174cms that are the same length as Salomon 180's). Either way this is a great ski for learning, but at your size you might eventually find it a little short or soft. YMMV.

Thanks! Great info! Thanks to everyone for putting their ideas in! It is a great start - who knows I may like it!

 

[dlague]

Watching a few videos and I find it funny how they all make it a spiritual / natural thing. Hello! It is just another way to ski!

One example:

 

[Smellytele]

Hey if want to sell me the 9.5 scarpas I may be interested if they are not packed out and beat. As others had said the hardshells are the way to go and yes the alpine turn is not as easy with the teles but helps with tired legs. Getting the balance down is the key. I find skiing in powder and bumps more enjoyable and easier with the teles. Keeping your center of gravity lower in powder is the best part. Teleing in bumps is easier on my legs then groomed Intermediate/expert trails This is because you don't actually have to push yourself back up to transition to the next turn. Let the bump help. As you go through the bumps let gravity help and just extend your legs with your body at the same height.Basically let the ski and boot fall with the slope.

 

[dlague]

Hey if want to sell me the 9.5 scarpas I may be interested if they are not packed out and beat. As others had said the hardshells are the way to go and yes the alpine turn is not as easy with the teles but helps with tired legs. Getting the balance down is the key. I find skiing in powder and bumps more enjoyable and easier with the teles. Keeping your center of gravity lower in powder is the best part. Teleing in bumps is easier on my legs then groomed Intermediate/expert trails This is because you don't actually have to push yourself back up to transition to the next turn. Let the bump help. As you go through the bumps let gravity help and just extend your legs with your body at the same height.Basically let the ski and boot fall with the slope.

If they do not fit I would give them to you since that is how I got them. You live nearby so should not be hard to meet! Thanks for the pointers!

 

[Scruffy]

Avoid the BCX675 style boots and stick with a modern hardshell Scarpa, Garmont (Scott), or BD 75mm boot 3- or 4-buckle boot.. Should be able to find good deals over the summer and as folks switch to NTN.

The free boots that are too small - is this based on a shell fit or with liners? If with liners, with or without footbeds? Are the liners heat moldable? If the shell fit is right (no more than two fingers between heel and back of the boot, with your bare foot snugged up against the toe), then you might be able to get a good fit by fiddling around with these factors, or by replacing the current liner with a new Intuition liner and molding it to your own foot (highly recommended).

Other thoughts: K2 tele skis are "long for their length" so your 174 might be closer to the 179's you're used to. (I've had K2 174cms that are the same length as Salomon 180's). Either way this is a great ski for learning, but at your size you might eventually find it a little short or soft. YMMV.

+1

Good ski and bindings to learn on. If you need new boots, get a T2 or higher grade boot. Don't be lured into a T4 level. What kind of feet do you have? Scarpa is usually for narrow high arch feet and Garmont usually fits a wider foot. ( I say usually, because I believe Scarpa changed their last recently, at least for their NTN line ).