Can guns vs. Air / Water guns

[mountainman]

Simple breakdowns. SMi fan guns cost. $25,000 - $35,000. Times 200 = $6,000,0000.00 $30,000 dollar gun stuck on a pole.
Can a resort with 250 fan guns run all at once? Cost of power and power restrictions?
HKD guns. $2,500. - $3,500 times 200 = $600,000.00 Low E Rangers can be made up with portable stands.
Tower guns miminal maintanace. Nozzels, gaskets. Air to run 200 HKD's 20,000 cfm plus or minus. Can a air water system run 200 guns? Based on air / water resources. Just throwing out some numbers here and some questions.
Cost of eletric air compressors?
Cost of diesel fuel?
Difference in prices of snowmaking equipment. $6,000,000.00 Fan guns.
$600,000.00 Air / Water HKD's
$5,400,000.00 Difference
Again throwing it out there pros and cons.
Even the cost of diesel fuel snowmaking is still possibe with out a high power demand.
Running lifts in day time increases power demand possibly limiting snowmaking production with all electric. Yes diesel will cost alot but if you don,t have snow making is not much fun to ski or ride.

 

[tcharron]

200,000 gallons diesel fuel per year less.

 

[Marc]

The air emission control system in our Large Burn Lab runs at 200,000 cfm during a large scale test. Not a tremendous amount of pressure though.

That was totally off topic.

 

[mondeo]

200,000 gallons diesel fuel per year less.

But many MW-hr per year more.

Fan guns are more efficient, but due to more efficient energy delivery, not because they don't use energy at all. Might be a 50% reduction, I'd guess.

 

[deadheadskier]

You know, there's this little ski area I worked at in Maryland called Wisp. They had a type of snowgun that was somewhat in between the big honking fan guns Mt. Snow uses and a can gun. Those suckers pumped out a ton of snow; more than any kind of gun I've ever witnessed.

Anyone familiar with the area and the type of gun they use?

 

[mondeo]

The air emission control system in our Large Burn Lab runs at 200,000 cfm during a large scale test. Not a tremendous amount of pressure though.

That was totally off topic.

One of these engines will do around 2,000,000 cfm. Only gets to around 570 PSI, though.

Still off-topic.

 

[kingslug]

200,000 gallons diesel fuel per year less.

Which costs around a million, million two. And maintenance on those air comps ain't cheap either.

 

[mountainman]

Yes protype for the industry?

You know, there's this little ski area I worked at in Maryland called Wisp. They had a type of snowgun that was somewhat in between the big honking fan guns Mt. Snow uses and a can gun. Those suckers pumped out a ton of snow; more than any kind of gun I've ever witnessed.

Anyone familiar with the area and the type of gun they use?

One of the nicest snowmaking system put together on the east coast. Fully automated? Can not disagree with you at all. Have they found a new Mt. Manager yet. I'm interested.

 

[millerm277]

You know, there's this little ski area I worked at in Maryland called Wisp. They had a type of snowgun that was somewhat in between the big honking fan guns Mt. Snow uses and a can gun. Those suckers pumped out a ton of snow; more than any kind of gun I've ever witnessed.

Anyone familiar with the area and the type of gun they use?

SMI Viking's. See the article here Haven't seen them at too many areas, Sno Mtn, PA has a few as well I think.

 

[drjeff]

SMI Viking's. See the article here Haven't seen them at too many areas, Sno Mtn, PA has a few as well I think.

Mount Snow actually has that same SMI mix too. The Viking's basically look like a traditional air/water pole mounted gun, except that they have their own on board air compressor, thus making them operational of tradional diesel air compressor air. The pic below is a close up of the head of the viking tower

and here's a bunch of them set up

Then as mentioned in the article, Wisp also installed the SMI Superpolecats, of which Mount Snow will now be sporting 250 or so. The pic below was actuall taken at Wisp

and there more commonly seen Mount Snow forms

and

and Mount Snow even has a couple of the smaller kid polecats too (except in black instead of red )

 

[deadheadskier]

One of the nicest snowmaking system put together on the east coast. Fully automated? Can not disagree with you at all. Have they found a new Mt. Manager yet. I'm interested.

Fully automated. It was pretty cool to watch from the control CPU. It literally was like an interactive trail map. You point and click on a trail and a window pops up where you could adjust the water/air mix and viola the guns started. At the time, in optimal conditions they could open their entire 120 acres of terrain with a foot of snow in 48 hours having every single gun on the mountain running at once.

No idea about the Mountain manager. When I was there 5 years ago, the manager they had left after about 18 months and took the GM job at Purgatory. Most all of the management there turned over very quickly. Three of the four owners were big time jerks and that's not an opinion held only by me.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Have they found a new Mt. Manager yet. I'm interested.

Not yet, AFAIK:

DIRECTOR OF MOUNTAIN OPERATIONS
Wisp Resort in McHenry, MD is seeking a motivated leader to serve as the Director of Mountain Operations. In this role, the director will manage all aspects of mountain operations to include: snowmaking, grooming, ski patrol operations, lift operations, lift maintenance, vehicle maintenance, and grounds maintenance. The director will serve as a member of the resort’s senior management team. The ideal candidate will have the ability to successfully manage multiple departments and capital projects simultaneously. A deep understanding of ski industry as well as a customer centric mindset are a must. To be considered you should have at least six years of mountain operations experience, four of which have been in a management role. Wisp offers a competitive pay structure and an excellence benefit package. If you are willing to join our high performance team then please submit your resume, professional references and cover letter to Christopher Willis, Director of Human Resources at resumes@wispresort.com. Wisp Resort is an Equal Opportunity Employer, M/F/D/V.

 

[tcharron]

Which costs around a million, million two. And maintenance on those air comps ain't cheap either.

I'm pretty sure they used to lease the compressors. But moot point really. Saves mhoola.

 

[tcharron]

But many MW-hr per year more.

Fan guns are more efficient, but due to more efficient energy delivery, not because they don't use energy at all. Might be a 50% reduction, I'd guess.

It'd be interesting to see how much more juice they end up using in a year, and compare that with the cost of the old compressors.

 

[drjeff]

It'd be interesting to see how much more juice they end up using in a year, and compare that with the cost of the old compressors.

Well, you figure that for starter's MS is using about 200,000 less gallons a year of Diesel, and at current prices, even with some bulk discount rates, you're talking somewhere between $800k to 1 Million in fuel savings and that's before the rental fee for those 16 ingersoll rands for roughly 3 months.

That's some decent coin there

 

[drjeff]

Mount Snow actually has that same SMI mix too. The Viking's basically look like a traditional air/water pole mounted gun, except that they have their own on board air compressor, thus making them operational of tradional diesel air compressor air. The pic below is a close up of the head of the viking tower

and here's a bunch of them set up

Then as mentioned in the article, Wisp also installed the SMI Superpolecats, of which Mount Snow will now be sporting 250 or so. The pic below was actuall taken at Wisp

and there more commonly seen Mount Snow forms

and

and Mount Snow even has a couple of the smaller kid polecats too (except in black instead of red )

Here's a pic I took today over at Mount Snow by the Carinthia Lodge where the carriage mounted SMI's from last year's purchase are spending their "summer vacation"

I particularly like this pic because you get the entire polecat family (the Super Polecat, the Polecat and the Kid Polecat ) all in 1 shot

And in general after looking at the hour meter on the polecats there, Mount Snow ran them roughly 450 hours a piece last season

 

[midd]

Anyone heard if Attitash is adding new fan guns this year like Mt. Snow?

 

[tcharron]

I haven't heard of any new guns going to Attitash this year.

 

[Skieast]

Cool pic Dr. Jeff!!

 

[drjeff]

Cool pic Dr. Jeff!!

Thanks, give me a couple of hours hiking around Mount Snow in the summer and a wide open memory card for the digi cam and I can come up with some pretty neat snowmaking machinery photos (Okay my wife thinks I'm a bit "snow geeky" for taking them )