Cannon or Wildcat on Wednesday?

[Edd]

Myself and 2 friends (advanced skiers) are planning on going to Cannon on Wed., but the tram there won't be open yet so I'm wondering about Wildcat instead. I've seen no recent trip reports on Wildcat. Anyone been there this week or last? Is the tram at Cannon worth waiting for?

 

[mountaindude]

Myself and 2 friends (advanced skiers) are planning on going to Cannon on Wed., but the tram there won't be open yet so I'm wondering about Wildcat instead. I've seen no recent trip reports on Wildcat. Anyone been there this week or last? Is the tram at Cannon worth waiting for?

If it is terrain that you are afraid that you will not be able to access except by the tram then i don't believe that you will have anything to worry about. You can access the same terrain by using the upper lifts. Someone correct me if i am wrong.

 

[awf170]

I would choose Wildcat. Matters what you want. Wildcat actually has natural snow terrian open. Cannon has none. Wildcat has 17 ungroomed runs. Cannon has one ungroomed run. Wildcat is pretty flat though, so if you want steep groomers Cannon is a better choice.

On a side note: Why does Cannon groom to death? 32 out of 33 trails groomed. That is the most ridiculious thing I have ever heard. That is worse than ASC mountains. Cannon is supposed to be a skiers mountain. Don't groom everything!!! Wildcat only groomed 20 out of 37 runs.

 

[thebigo]

That is worse than ASC mountains.

I dont know where you got the idea that asc grooms their moutains to death. If anything Killington and Sugarloaf groom less than the average new england mountain. I would guess they groom between half and 2/3 of the open terrain on average.

Sunday River and snow might be different.

 

[awf170]

I dont know where you got the idea that asc grooms their moutains to death. If anything Killington and Sugarloaf groom less than the average new england mountain. I would guess they groom between half and 2/3 of the open terrain on average.

Sunday River and snow might be different.

I have really no experiance with ASC mountains other than Sugarloaf. I just like to assume bad things about ASC because I don't like them.

Anyway, I always thought Sunday River, Mt. Snow, and Attitash groomed to death? :-?

From my experianced with Sugarloaf they groom a little too much but do leave a good amount ungroomed. My biggest problem with their grooming is that they go edge to edge. The trails are so wide, couldn't they leave alteast 10-20 on atleast one edge on the wider trails. Maybe this has changed though. :-?

 

[riverc0il]

On a side note: Why does Cannon groom to death? 32 out of 33 trails groomed. That is the most ridiculious thing I have ever heard. That is worse than ASC mountains. Cannon is supposed to be a skiers mountain. Don't groom everything!!! Wildcat only groomed 20 out of 37 runs.

ummmm, because they don't have enough natural snow? as much as i love trails left to the wild, things would be in dire straights at cannon right now if they didn't groom. i can't fault them. i have spent a lot of days at cannon unhappy with the grooming but knowing that if the trails weren't groomed, they really wouldn't appeal to many people. myself included in many instances when no natural snow has fallen for a while. cannon has done well over the last few years with leaving sides of some trails natural such as rocket and gary's, not sure how they are doing this year with the lack of snow. cannon is a tough mountain when they don't get natural, not the mountain's fault. once they get some natural snow you can expect to find a solid 25% of the trails natural if they are fully open.

 

[riverc0il]

Anyway, I always thought Sunday River, Mt. Snow, and Attitash groomed to death? :-?

i can't speak for mount snow or attitash, but the river has a lot of natural snow trails, good bumpers under the lift lines usually and of course a decent amount of glades. river grooms everything to death at about the same rate most mountains do.

 

[awf170]

ummmm, because they don't have enough natural snow? as much as i love trails left to the wild, things would be in dire straights at cannon right now if they didn't groom. i can't fault them. i have spent a lot of days at cannon unhappy with the grooming but knowing that if the trails weren't groomed, they really wouldn't appeal to many people. myself included in many instances when no natural snow has fallen for a while. cannon has done well over the last few years with leaving sides of some trails natural such as rocket and gary's, not sure how they are doing this year with the lack of snow. cannon is a tough mountain when they don't get natural, not the mountain's fault. once they get some natural snow you can expect to find a solid 25% of the trails natural if they are fully open.

Why not just make snow then let the trail be? Not the greatest skiing in the world when you do that but IMO it beats skiing on all groomed runs. I think that is what they did on zoomer but why not do it on alteast one or two more trails? Maybe Banshee?

Wildcat has made snow but didn't groom Tomcat Schuss, upper lynx, and lift lion. Though lapping zoomer is probably a better run than anyone of those if conditions are equal. Why can't it snow in NH so we wouldn't have to be talking about this?

 

[AdironRider]

Cannons primary ungroomed route (Hardscrabbles) hasnt opened up yet this season. Once it does its one of the best out there.

 

[riverc0il]

Why can't it snow in NH so we wouldn't have to be talking about this?

indeed.

but to answer the question, i think for two reasons: eventually ungroomed trails get nasty and no one wants to ski them (not even me). cannon is particularly prone to this effect for some odd reason. groomed man made snow also sets up differently than natural snow left wild. groomed man made sets up a perpetual need to regroom or else conditions get ugly. the only thing that cures that vicious cycle is natural snow. the typical natural snow trails are also somewhat steeper than wildcat's which may contribute to it being harder to let some trails go natural. unfortunately at this point, cannon doesn't have any of its typical all natural snow trails open. the trails cannon is grooming right now are the trails that are always groomed. paulie's, zoomer lift, vista, taft, the hards, and red ball are all closed. in recent years, avalanche, zoomer, rocket, gary's, extension have all had 1/4 of the trial left ungroomed, but i suspect the trail report would still report those trails as groomed regardless. hard to know without a first hand report since the trail report doesn't mention what they half groom.

the other issue is that most cannon skiers are groomer rippers. cannon isn't the "skiers mountain" that it is made out to be. then again neither is wildcat. though cannon and the cat are certainly better than any of the other NH offerings. cannon certainly doesn't cater to the expert skier and i learned to accept that and seek out my own adventures at cannon when mother nature allows.

 

[awf170]

the other issue is that most cannon skiers are groomer rippers. cannon isn't the "skiers mountain" that it is made out to be. then again neither is wildcat. though cannon and the cat are certainly better than any of the other NH offerings. cannon certainly doesn't cater to the expert skier and i learned to accept that and seek out my own adventures at cannon when mother nature allows.

Actually I think both are "skier mountains" though I think Cannons core groups are racers and carvers.

Wildcat's core group from what I can see are alpine tourers and telemarkers. Probably because of the proximity of Tucks and other backcountry.


Also, I think Wildcat actually does cater to expert skiers as much as they can. For example, during Christmas break when I went up there were only three runs open from the tomcat triple and 2 of them were bumped. Pretty unheard of to do.

Basically both mountains have a core group of local ripping skiers but Cannon's want to ski groomers and Wildcats want to ski ungroomed. Cannon does seem to have a large group of powder and glade skiers too but from what I saw but not nearly as large as their carver group, but then again I have never been there on a powder day.


Edit: I missed your first sentence. Ripping grooming skiers don't make it a "skiers mountain". I'm not sure what I think. I guess if they adverse terrian like windy trail, cannon hardpack, etc then yes. I guess they do then if they keep skiing at Cannon.

Wow...

 

[riverc0il]

i don't think there is too much difference between the two mountain's BC skier populations. most skiers i have seen at wildcat ski groomers, probably same percentage as cannon. cannon has the added mystique of being the home of bode miller and has really wide cruising slopes. most wildcat skiers would never guess the mountain was once home to one of the greatest downhill racing courses in the northeast. there are two different attitudes at both mountains but there are more similarities than differences. wildcat actually benefits from being less steep and having less snow making, they have some incredibly cool low angle natural snow trails that make for fantastic spring bumping. cannon's terrain, angle, aspect, and width of trails is a stark contrast to wildcat with a few exceptions. cannon is much more open. there is a completely different type of skier that shows up for cannon after a storm and the natural snow trails are open, that much is for sure. i have seen the front face trails completely tracked out in less than an hour before and bumped up before noon when the trails just opened for the season that morning. cannon just needs more snow before you can start having fun off the groomed.

 

[awf170]

i don't think there is too much difference between the two mountain's BC skier populations. most skiers i have seen at wildcat ski groomers, probably same percentage as cannon. cannon has the added mystique of being the home of bode miller and has really wide cruising slopes. most wildcat skiers would never guess the mountain was once home to one of the greatest downhill racing courses in the northeast. there are two different attitudes at both mountains but there are more similarities than differences. wildcat actually benefits from being less steep and having less snow making, they have some incredibly cool low angle natural snow trails that make for fantastic spring bumping. cannon's terrain, angle, aspect, and width of trails is a stark contrast to wildcat with a few exceptions. cannon is much more open. there is a completely different type of skier that shows up for cannon after a storm and the natural snow trails are open, that much is for sure. i have seen the front face trails completely tracked out in less than an hour before and bumped up before noon when the trails just opened for the season that morning. cannon just needs more snow before you can start having fun off the groomed.

Yeah I agree.


Anyway back to the original thread: After a few years of trying to decide which mountain I have came to this conclusion.

Go to Wildcat:

• In the spring if you want bumps.
• If you want to ski natural snow trails when there isn't much snow.
• On a less than 6 inch storm without a large base.
• If you want cruising terrian.

Go to Cannon:

• When there is good base.
• If it snowed over a foot recently.
• If you want steep groomers.

Neither are good choices:

• If it is windy.
• If there is no natural snow.

 

[thebigo]

One more thing, not sure if you live in nh but if you do you can ski for $20 on wednesday at cannon and wildcat is two for one on wednesdays ($29).

 

[Edd]

One of my original questions was if anyone has been to Wildcat in the last 2 weeks.

 

[pimothy]

Wildcat is down 10 trails now, the other 37 are in fine condition. Sunday there was actually a 3-4 minute lift line (at times) on the Quad. Otherwise it was like getting the hole shot.

 

[pimothy]

I love Cannon plenty enough, but the true answer to this post was Wildcat. The snow was seamless courduroy wall to wall. The small crowd raved, you just needed warm clothing and some variation of facemask. Not sure of the temperature, but this cover (37trails) should last a while.

 

[SIKSKIER]

Ok,from someone that skis Cannon 50+ days a year and lives next door I will say that Rivercoil has pretty much nailed the reasons for Cannon grooming most of it's terrain.IT HAS TOO.Right now there might be 5-6 inches of natural snowcover except where wind has blown it into the edge of a trail.I ducked the rope on Upper Ravine Sunday to get over to Taft and the cutover had 3-4 inches and rocks protruding everywhere.I actually walked back out cuz of the lack of snow.Cannon has a hard time keeping natural snow on its trails.It gets dramatic temp swings with its location at the top of the notch.When the south wind blows up the notch it can melt snow like you can't believe.Anyway,it is what it is.As far as natural terrain though nobody in NE has a spare old ski area next to it to play on when we do get snow.Totally untouched.If you want a real adventure,park a car at the end of Tuckerbrook trail and try that out.It runs off the backside of Mittersill.It's about 3 1/2 miles back by car.Believe me there is plenty of natural terrain at Cannon if you know where to look.We have even skied off the south side and ended up at Lafayette campground through what is known as South Bowl.