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Electric Cars/Trucks and winter weather testing with results. What do you think? Who has taken one in Freezing cold long distance to a Ski mountain?

MidnightJester

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Just like my smart phone or Go-pro camera they both do worse in the Cold and especially freezing weather. Driving 60MPH in 20MPH blowing freezing cold has to do a number on battery reactions to generate electricity in a modern electric car.
I have seen a few tests about driving in Freezing cold with Electric cars and they lose up to 30% of their estimated charge/distance available driving on mostly flat terrain. What does Ski mountain driving do to travel distance? Remove 40-50% of charge and distance available from Maximum warm distance.

This test was done at 37F(3c) to 45F(7c) not even below freezing of 32F(0c).

I was at a ski mountain in VT last winter and saw a person come back to his plugged in car in the parking lot at 4pm-ish and he was upset that after all day(8hrs) plugged in he was only at 65% charge(no idea on his starting charge). They charge worse in the cold too.

 
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MidnightJester

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Taking a Electric car and making it to the Ski mountain is only half the Electric cold war. You hopefully started at a full charge to get there now your charge could be anywhere to make the trip back home

When a electric car/truck can get 600 miles regular and 300miles+ in the freezing cold they will be KINDA ready for the mountains. Not counting doubling the charge or mileage doubles the charging time
 
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skef

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Jul 31, 2016
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I own a Tesla Model Y and live in greater Boston. Took delivery of the vehicle in mid-2020 and made my first ski trip with it in the mid-pandemic 2021 ski season. Back then, if you played by the COVID rules, the only real option for daytripping was to stay in MA. Wachusett was a zoo that year, so after a couple of days of that I looked around and discovered Berkshire East. Took my first trip there in late January, on (as I remember) a day that started out at 5 degrees F. I figured that, with a nominal 300ish mile range, I could do the round trip without charging along the way.

This was my first long-ish, way-cold trip with the Y, and I made a couple of rookie mistakes. First, I hauled ass on the way out, aiming for first chair. At 70 MPH you burn through battery a lot faster than at 60 MPH. So I arrived with less juice than planned, but I still thought I’d be fine. Second, I didn’t appreciate how much power the battery management system would need to keep the batteries at a safe temperature over the course of the cold day. That cost a good bit of range. When I was finally done skiing and got back in the car I was a bit alarmed. The nav system knows the Tesla charging network, of course, and it directed me to the Lunenberg (I think) supercharger station, which I made with a small enough number of miles to spare that I was sweating. 10 or 15 minutes later, I had enough more than charge to get home.

Re: “doubling the charge or mileage doubles the charging time” — that’s actually not the way it works, with high voltage DC chargers. When the car is at 20% or less, the initial charging is extremely fast — 10 miles of range per minute (600 per hour). Above 80%, things taper off to a few miles per minute. But usually, you don’t charge above 80% (but you can, over night, before a long trip…).

Once the restrictions were relaxed (late spring that year), I took trips to NH, ME, and VT. A 10-15 minute stop at a supercharger on the way up was all I needed to get there. Both Killington and Sunday River have free on-site chargers that I’ve made good use of. I don’t keep records of this stuff, but I think after an all-day-plugged-in at K I can make it home without a stop. Might need a quick top-off when coming back from SR. No on-site chargers at Loon ski parking lots (yet?), but 10 minutes at River Walk does the trick.

Yes, it’s not as convenient as burning gas. But it’s not all that bad, really. A little planning goes a long way.

I don’t have snow tires on the Y, and so a few times last year I had to take my Audi A5 up to ski country instead. It was nice to drive faster and make fewer stops, but I put a bunch more kilos of carbon into the atmosphere each trip. The A5 is long in the tooth and will be replaced with a BMW i4M50 in a few months. Then I need to decide which car gets snows. And I’ll discover what life with an EV is like that’s not on the Tesla charging network.
 

Edd

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The electric infrastructure in northern New England is non-existent, relatively speaking. CA and MA requiring all-electric by 2035 seems unreasonable. Hybrid is much more reasonable. We have a hybrid and love it.
 

deadheadskier

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The electric infrastructure in northern New England is non-existent, relatively speaking. CA and MA requiring all-electric by 2035 seems unreasonable. Hybrid is much more reasonable. We have a hybrid and love it.

My new work van is a Sienna Hybrid. Replaced a Sienna with a V6. Both have AWD and same size tank. Averaging 550 miles per tank with the hybrid vs 375 in the V6 and only a minor drop in power. I'm a believer.
 

RH29

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Nov 23, 2021
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I drive a big gas powered SUV, and cannot wait until all of you go electric so gas prices drop like a rock. :devilish:
Supply and demand, my friend. If gas use goes down because of the new electric laws, the oil tycoons will lower supply so they can keep getting a pretty penny.
 

MidnightJester

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A quick check of Vermont says they have 300 charging stations in all of Vermont at some point this year(they claim that's best in America by population). Best wishes on getting a charging spot on the fly when running out or delayed in the cold. I have issues finding a gas station open at 3am in VT when running out of gas sometimes and there are a lot of them.

A Level 2 charging port outdoors in a blizzard of VT or elsewhere while on low charge must be a nightmare to behold.

Even 20 electric cars at most ski mountains would quickly fill up a town of available charging spots till someone would be leaving without a proper charge. For example the town of Stowe has 21(Level 2) chargers and only 1(level 3), Killington has 54 chargers and that is in the whole town including some at the mountain. They expect 10,000cars for the Woman's world cup race in town and around. The electric hummer would take 24hrs on a level 2 at best charging rate but you can only charge 8-hrs or so while riding. So you can only get 30-40% additional charge while riding at most charging ports(level2). The Level 3 charging locations are not usually where you are
 
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MidnightJester

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Oct 7, 2011
Messages
480
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I own a Tesla Model Y and live in greater Boston. Took delivery of the vehicle in mid-2020 and made my first ski trip with it in the mid-pandemic 2021 ski season. Back then, if you played by the COVID rules, the only real option for daytripping was to stay in MA. Wachusett was a zoo that year, so after a couple of days of that I looked around and discovered Berkshire East. Took my first trip there in late January, on (as I remember) a day that started out at 5 degrees F. I figured that, with a nominal 300ish mile range, I could do the round trip without charging along the way.
Was wondering what was your approximate mileage you were expecting each way?
Last season my seven or so Vermont Ski and Boarding trips were usually 300 to 350miles each way on average without extra stopping.
 
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jimmywilson69

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The hybrid is the clear winner at least in the near term until we can invent better battery options. Its unfortunate that they aren't offered in more vehicle models. For instance Subaru only offers a hybrid in the Crosstrek. Its a fine car, I bought a non-hybrid for my son, but I need something a little larger like the Forester or Outback.

Another potential flaw to the all electric vehicle is just the electric infrastructure in general. the entire country's electric grid is largely very old and fragile. Regardless of green technology, our infrastructure needs much much more investment just to be stable. Its actually rather embarrassing that we've let it slide into the disrepair that it is...
 

NYDB

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I have a rivian r1t on order with the Max pack. I’ll have a charger at the VT house. We’ll see how it goes. I find out this month when I can get it, but I’m thinking I’ll be using it winter 23/24 as my ski country vehicle. Rivian has delayed the max pack production.
If I use the ferry on the trip I don’t anticipate any problems with range. Driving around could be dicey as its 290 miles door to door. 400 mile range expected. we shall see.
 

Granite1

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EV's are a hoax and there sure are enough dumb people out there to buy one. Can't wait for MA to ban gasoline powered cars, like CA. It will help reduce crowding on NH highways and ski slopes.
I drive a big gas powered SUV, and cannot wait until all of you go electric so gas prices drop like a rock. :devilish:
I couldn't agree with you more. The EV crowd also needs to be taxed based on how many miles they drive; they have to pay their fair share of highway taxes. It will be laughable when we are on the highway in our big SUVs, speeding past their idling EVs that are getting a charge. We will be well on our way for the first chair and first tracks on powder days. It will be hilarious when two indoctrinated-ignorant-radical-liberal-socialist-communists, one from Cambridge, MA, and the other from Manhattan, NY, get in a fight over the last charging station at the ski area once they finally arrive.
 

skiur

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EV's are a hoax and there sure are enough dumb people out there to buy one. Can't wait for MA to ban gasoline powered cars, like CA. It will help reduce crowding on NH highways and ski slopes.

I couldn't agree with you more. The EV crowd also needs to be taxed based on how many miles they drive; they have to pay their fair share of highway taxes. It will be laughable when we are on the highway in our big SUVs, speeding past their idling EVs that are getting a charge. We will be well on our way for the first chair and first tracks on powder days. It will be hilarious when two indoctrinated-ignorant-radical-liberal-socialist-communists, one from Cambridge, MA, and the other from Manhattan, NY, get in a fight over the last charging station at the ski area once they finally arrive.

That's basically what people riding horses said about cars in the early 1900's.
 

Edd

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EV's are a hoax and there sure are enough dumb people out there to buy one. Can't wait for MA to ban gasoline powered cars, like CA. It will help reduce crowding on NH highways and ski slopes.

I couldn't agree with you more. The EV crowd also needs to be taxed based on how many miles they drive; they have to pay their fair share of highway taxes. It will be laughable when we are on the highway in our big SUVs, speeding past their idling EVs that are getting a charge. We will be well on our way for the first chair and first tracks on powder days. It will be hilarious when two indoctrinated-ignorant-radical-liberal-socialist-communists, one from Cambridge, MA, and the other from Manhattan, NY, get in a fight over the last charging station at the ski area once they finally arrive.
Cool post 🤣
 

Granite1

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I own a Tesla Model Y and live in greater Boston. Took delivery of the vehicle in mid-2020 and made my first ski trip with it in the mid-pandemic 2021 ski season. Back then, if you played by the COVID rules, the only real option for daytripping was to stay in MA. Wachusett was a zoo that year, so after a couple of days of that I looked around and discovered Berkshire East. Took my first trip there in late January, on (as I remember) a day that started out at 5 degrees F. I figured that, with a nominal 300ish mile range, I could do the round trip without charging along the way.

This was my first long-ish, way-cold trip with the Y, and I made a couple of rookie mistakes. First, I hauled ass on the way out, aiming for first chair. At 70 MPH you burn through battery a lot faster than at 60 MPH. So I arrived with less juice than planned, but I still thought I’d be fine. Second, I didn’t appreciate how much power the battery management system would need to keep the batteries at a safe temperature over the course of the cold day. That cost a good bit of range. When I was finally done skiing and got back in the car I was a bit alarmed. The nav system knows the Tesla charging network, of course, and it directed me to the Lunenberg (I think) supercharger station, which I made with a small enough number of miles to spare that I was sweating. 10 or 15 minutes later, I had enough more than charge to get home.

Re: “doubling the charge or mileage doubles the charging time” — that’s actually not the way it works, with high voltage DC chargers. When the car is at 20% or less, the initial charging is extremely fast — 10 miles of range per minute (600 per hour). Above 80%, things taper off to a few miles per minute. But usually, you don’t charge above 80% (but you can, over night, before a long trip…).

Once the restrictions were relaxed (late spring that year), I took trips to NH, ME, and VT. A 10-15 minute stop at a supercharger on the way up was all I needed to get there. Both Killington and Sunday River have free on-site chargers that I’ve made good use of. I don’t keep records of this stuff, but I think after an all-day-plugged-in at K I can make it home without a stop. Might need a quick top-off when coming back from SR. No on-site chargers at Loon ski parking lots (yet?), but 10 minutes at River Walk does the trick.

Yes, it’s not as convenient as burning gas. But it’s not all that bad, really. A little planning goes a long way.

I don’t have snow tires on the Y, and so a few times last year I had to take my Audi A5 up to ski country instead. It was nice to drive faster and make fewer stops, but I put a bunch more kilos of carbon into the atmosphere each trip. The A5 is long in the tooth and will be replaced with a BMW i4M50 in a few months. Then I need to decide which car gets snows. And I’ll discover what life with an EV is like that’s not on the Tesla charging network.

Please continue to ski at Berkshire East and stay out of NH and VT and Maine.
That's basically what people riding horses said about cars in the early 1900's.
There's a big difference. It wasn't mathematically and scientifically impossible for everyone to switch from horseback to internal combustion engine vehicles. There has always been enough fossil fuels, and there still are enough fossil fuels to last centuries, that allowed the switch to automobiles. It is 100% impossible for everyone to switch to EV's, the math and science do not add up. It is impossible to produce enough electricity for everyone to have an EV. It would take over 8,000 new power plants if everyone plugged in an EV everyday. It is impossible to install charging stations for cities with over a million people in them-again it is scientifically impossible. It is impossible for ski areas to install hundreds of thousands charging stations in their parking lots. In addition, there are not enough raw earth materials available to replace fossil fuels-again scientifically impossible. Never mind that China owns/controls most of the raw earth deposits. Follow the math and science and it is 100% impossible to live with out fossil fuels.
 

drjeff

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Please continue to ski at Berkshire East and stay out of NH and VT and Maine.

There's a big difference. It wasn't mathematically and scientifically impossible for everyone to switch from horseback to internal combustion engine vehicles. There has always been enough fossil fuels, and there still are enough fossil fuels to last centuries, that allowed the switch to automobiles. It is 100% impossible for everyone to switch to EV's, the math and science do not add up. It is impossible to produce enough electricity for everyone to have an EV. It would take over 8,000 new power plants if everyone plugged in an EV everyday. It is impossible to install charging stations for cities with over a million people in them-again it is scientifically impossible. It is impossible for ski areas to install hundreds of thousands charging stations in their parking lots. In addition, there are not enough raw earth materials available to replace fossil fuels-again scientifically impossible. Never mind that China owns/controls most of the raw earth deposits. Follow the math and science and it is 100% impossible to live with out fossil fuels.

When the politcians start setting arbitrary dates that they desire for elimination of the sale of gas powered vehicles and only selling EV's that is sooner than it takes most any type of power plant that would be needed to supply the added electrical demand to undergo a permitting review and construction process, you've got a flawed system for sure. Let alone the other fact that it seems like more older, but still usuable power generating plants of various kinds, are coming offline before new power generating plants of various kinds can be built and come online, all the while our power demand is going up, there are some serious issues with how the math to make it all work is going to happen, regardless of what the politcians would like
 

Granite1

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When Thomas Edison developed DC electricity and George Westinghouse developed AC electricity, there was a huge debate over which current would work in the modern world. Along came Nikola Tesla, who proved using math and science that DC electricity would not work for the masses. It is mathematically impossible to generate DC current to power the electric grid. You would need a power plant on every street corner. How ironic, that Tesla's name is being used as part of the EV hoax. The same math and science Tesla used proves that EVs will never will work, you would need a power station at every home, every parking lot, every ski area, every apartment building, and you would need over 8,000 new power plants. Again, follow the math and science-like Tesla did-it is impossible for everyone to drive an EV.
 
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mister moose

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I own a Tesla Model Y and live in greater Boston.

There are some gains in cleaner emissions due to the economies of scale of large scale power generation, but lets face it you're driving a natural gas car with remote generation.


ma generation source.jpg
 
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