Europe opinions sought.

[Razor]

Just back from Italy, our first extensive trip abroad. A day in Cortina has whetted my appetite to try skiing Europe. To those out there who have done so, I'd like your opinion. Where and when would you go if you had only one trip to Europe to take. We are probably level 7 or 8 skiers who have done most of the major areas in No. America. Money isn't a major factor, although we'd be more interested in the skiing than the ambience. Any comments on the logistics of the trips is welcomed. Thanks.

 

[foofy]

I've spent a fair amount of time skiing in France so can comment on that but not much on other countries.

Chamonix is the classic - great, international village, varied lodging options, and skiing that will kick your butt. Downsides imho is the need to use the shuttle bus to get to/from the various areas throughout the valley as most are not linked. Close to Geneva with inexpensive transfers.

Also close to Geneva are the Portes du Soleil and the Grand Massif. The former straddles France and Switzerland, with a choice of areas to stay (Morzine / Avoriaz / Champery / etc.). Some areas require a bus or walk to another lift, but most is well linked. The latter has a charming village, Samoens, in addition to other villages and a large, linked area.

The Trois Vallees (Three Valleys) is another classic, but I have never been. Courchevel / Meribel / Les Menuires as well as some smaller villages are all interlinked here.

L'Espace Killy (Val d'Isere plus Tignes) is a fantastic choice. Amazing terrain and lifts, but on the pricey side.

Further south, you have Les Deux Alpes, Alpe d'Huez, and Serre Chevalier, with La Grave between them. Having spent last season in Serre Chevalier, I can heartily vouch for it. Huge, linked domain, friendly locals, and decent prices. Turin is the closest airport here, but transfers aren't so straightforward as at other areas.

This website http://www.welove2ski.com/jsp/index.jsp has some great info on the various aspects of all these areas plus others.

For your first trip to Europe, if you choose France, I'd suggest Val d'Isere, Three Valleys, or Chamonix, depending on your preferences. For logistics, Saturday - Saturday hotel or rentals will be the norm, and you'll probably want to avoid the last three weeks of February and first week of March which are the school vacation weeks. Late Jan / early Feb or mid-March would be ideal.

 

[billski]

I just loved everything about the Arlberg region of Austria. Skiing, ambiance, food, apres, down comforters....

 

[SLyardsale]

I've spent a fair amount of time skiing in France so can comment on that but not much on other countries.

Chamonix is the classic - great, international village, varied lodging options, and skiing that will kick your butt. Downsides imho is the need to use the shuttle bus to get to/from the various areas throughout the valley as most are not linked. Close to Geneva with inexpensive transfers.

Also close to Geneva are the Portes du Soleil and the Grand Massif. The former straddles France and Switzerland, with a choice of areas to stay (Morzine / Avoriaz / Champery / etc.). Some areas require a bus or walk to another lift, but most is well linked. The latter has a charming village, Samoens, in addition to other villages and a large, linked area.

The Trois Vallees (Three Valleys) is another classic, but I have never been. Courchevel / Meribel / Les Menuires as well as some smaller villages are all interlinked here.
L'Espace Killy (Val d'Isere plus Tignes) is a fantastic choice. Amazing terrain and lifts, but on the pricey side.

Further south, you have Les Deux Alpes, Alpe d'Huez, and Serre Chevalier, with La Grave between them. Having spent last season in Serre Chevalier, I can heartily vouch for it. Huge, linked domain, friendly locals, and decent prices. Turin is the closest airport here, but transfers aren't so straightforward as at other areas.

This website http://www.welove2ski.com/jsp/index.jsp has some great info on the various aspects of all these areas plus others.

For your first trip to Europe, if you choose France, I'd suggest Val d'Isere, Three Valleys, or Chamonix, depending on your preferences. For logistics, Saturday - Saturday hotel or rentals will be the norm, and you'll probably want to avoid the last three weeks of February and first week of March which are the school vacation weeks. Late Jan / early Feb or mid-March would be ideal.

I've been to Les Menuires twice - it is the only place in Europe I have skied so I have nothing to judge against. I had great rates (free) which influenced my travel to Les Menuires. Both trips were in mid March. The first time, it was an epic snow year - almost too good - lots of avalanch concern and I skied in my first COMPLETE white out - scary. But we got 5 epic days of sking in on a 9 day trip. The 2nd trip was a snow drought year and it was interesting to see the difference in terrain compared to the 1st time I went. Even in a down year, it was still a great trip - the 3 Valleys with Les Menuires more or less in the middle elevation wise gives you so many options with various villages - even in the down snow year it was quite good (to me). You have lots of options here with so much terrain. It's not all that hard to get to - flying into Geneve with a drive of just under 100 miles (150 kilometers I think) I remember the drive taking 2+ hrs - we went up on a Friday with a ton of weekend traffic on a brutal hairpin Rd. I took tons a photos (prior to me having a digital camera) and I'll try to scan some & post. It's been quite a while since I have been and I am itching to go back to the Alps. When I return I'd probably go elsewhere, just for a change of scenery/terrain. Good luck - hope you have a good trip.

 

[RISkier]

I just loved everything about the Arlberg region of Austria. Skiing, ambiance, food, apres, down comforters....

We were in Lech and loved everything about the Arlberg region. Fairly easy access from Zurich. There is an Arlberg Express bus that will take you directly from the Airport to Lech, Zuers, St. Anton. Zermatt would certainly be very high on my list of places I'd take a very close look at.

 

[PomfretPlunge]

x2 on Lech

 

[skidmarks]

Austria is a great value. If you enjoy local food find a Pension that has "half board" that's breakfast and dinner included. I enjoyed skiing in Lech/Zurs in the Arlberg region. If it's in your budget hire a guide for a few days or the entire week. Otherwise you are limited in where you can ski off-piste with safety. They always know where the best snow is and by the time you figure it out on your own it's time to go home.
Make sure you have a Weiss Biere and some Parma Ham at the Bar in the Stroltz shop.

 

[psyflyer]

Italy without a doubt.

 

[Geoff]

The problem with Europe is the unreliable snow quality compared to the western United States. It's also pretty much 100% above the tree line at most resorts so you don't get much skiing in when it's flat light conditions.

This thread has already captured what I would say....

Go to the biggest places since the scale is nothing like the little places we have in North America. The Arlberg, Les Trois Vallees, or Tignes/Val d'Isere top my list.

You want high elevation to get more reliable snow.

Hire a guide. It's worth every penny.

I personally find Chamonix to be a pain in the ass. The lodging is mostly in town. The lifts are nowhere near the lodging. It's insane uploading in the morning.

 

[foofy]

The higher elevation resorts (e.g. Val Thorens in the Three Valleys) are indeed above tree line with the accompanying risk of not being able to ski during whiteouts. Any huge "domain" like this, however, also has lower elevation runs carved through the trees that provide an option for those days. There is plenty of below tree line skiing to be found most anywhere. It's not unlike Vail or Whistler in that respect, just a whole lot larger and more spread out.

The snow quality can always a crap shoot. I've seen it both ways, both in Europe and out West.

Chamonix can be a complete PIA, I agree. If the weather cooperates, however, hiring a guide to take you down the Vallee Blanche, the glacier off Mt. Blanc, is an incomparable experience and is one of the highlights of my skiing life (lucky me went when we had 3-4 feet of snow over three days opening up to a bluebird day).

Another thing I'll mention about France - while there is some apres to be found, especially in places like Chamonix, it's not on a par with Austria or the US, for example. It's more about the food/restaurants and skiing. Half board can be a great option - even at a 2* hotel, you will eat very well.

 

[foofy]

One more link: http://www.snowheads.com/ forums will have specific resort information for just about anywhere in Europe.

 

[gladerider]

I've spent a fair amount of time skiing in France so can comment on that but not much on other countries.

Chamonix is the classic - great, international village, varied lodging options, and skiing that will kick your butt. Downsides imho is the need to use the shuttle bus to get to/from the various areas throughout the valley as most are not linked. Close to Geneva with inexpensive transfers.

Also close to Geneva are the Portes du Soleil and the Grand Massif. The former straddles France and Switzerland, with a choice of areas to stay (Morzine / Avoriaz / Champery / etc.). Some areas require a bus or walk to another lift, but most is well linked. The latter has a charming village, Samoens, in addition to other villages and a large, linked area.

The Trois Vallees (Three Valleys) is another classic, but I have never been. Courchevel / Meribel / Les Menuires as well as some smaller villages are all interlinked here.

L'Espace Killy (Val d'Isere plus Tignes) is a fantastic choice. Amazing terrain and lifts, but on the pricey side.

Further south, you have Les Deux Alpes, Alpe d'Huez, and Serre Chevalier, with La Grave between them. Having spent last season in Serre Chevalier, I can heartily vouch for it. Huge, linked domain, friendly locals, and decent prices. Turin is the closest airport here, but transfers aren't so straightforward as at other areas.

This website http://www.welove2ski.com/jsp/index.jsp has some great info on the various aspects of all these areas plus others.

For your first trip to Europe, if you choose France, I'd suggest Val d'Isere, Three Valleys, or Chamonix, depending on your preferences. For logistics, Saturday - Saturday hotel or rentals will be the norm, and you'll probably want to avoid the last three weeks of February and first week of March which are the school vacation weeks. Late Jan / early Feb or mid-March would be ideal.

It's tough to answer without knowing your preference. You'd have fun pretty much anywhere in europe, but if money is no problem, go to a big resort like Chamonix or Les Trois Vallee. Also, be sure to do some research and get a guide. You will have a completely different experience. IMHO, going to these places to ski marked trail is somewhat of a waste. Skiing in the Alps is all about OFF-PISTE, IMHO. If you want to experience big size, go to Les Trois Vallee and get the pass that get you to all the resorts. I could be wrong, but I think Les Trois Vallee is 3-5 times bigger than Whistler. Going from one end to the other end and back will take you all day, literally.
If you are in your in your 20's, I'd suggest Val D'Isere. If you want good apre ski, I'd suggest Courchevel.
And if this is your only 1 chance, I'd go sometime in February. Check before you go, weather wise.
Logistics wise, I'd fly into Geneva then connect from there. If you have more time and money, you can go from London or Paris. If going from London, there are many packages you can work with. If going from Paris, you can go taking the TGV as well as flying.

have fun...

 

[Razor]

Thanks so far

Great info thus far. Lots to research. Interesting that one of the Brit websites rates Jackson Hole #1. Keep it coming. Thanks.

 

[gladerider]

Great info thus far. Lots to research. Interesting that one of the Brit websites rates Jackson Hole #1. Keep it coming. Thanks.

bcuz the brits know that in terms of powder you cannot beat the rockies. i personally have not been to JH so I don't know but i've heard JH's back country is trully sick.

oh by the way, my reference to Courchevel and apre-ski was meant for Courchevel 1850.

 

[RISkier]

bcuz the brits know that in terms of powder you cannot beat the rockies. i personally have not been to JH so I don't know but i've heard JH's back country is trully sick.

oh by the way, my reference to Courchevel and apre-ski was meant for Courchevel 1850.

Doesn't really surprise me either. Lots of Brits like coming to ski in the Rockies. Some European ski areas are considered pretty snow sure and some have glacier skiing. But, overall, it's hard to beat the Rockies from a pure snow reliability perspective. To me, the parts of the Alps that I've seen are absolutely stunning and I've not been to the places reputed to be tops for scenery. And we've loved visiting Europe. We like the food, the apres ski, the experience... But in general the Rockies have a more reliable snow record.

 

[skidmarks]

Doesn't really surprise me either. Lots of Brits like coming to ski in the Rockies. Some European ski areas are considered pretty snow sure and some have glacier skiing. But, overall, it's hard to beat the Rockies from a pure snow reliability perspective. To me, the parts of the Alps that I've seen are absolutely stunning and I've not been to the places reputed to be tops for scenery. And we've loved visiting Europe. We like the food, the apres ski, the experience... But in general the Rockies have a more reliable snow record.

The Brits love the Rockies because they've all skied the Alps a lot and they're looking for change.
What you get skiing in Europe is vast skiing regions like the Arlberg all conected by lifts, cables, and buses. You have a little more risk of poor conditions than in the Rockies however I've been to Europe six times in the past 8 years and have had good luck.
Europe!! Because the beer tastes better

 

[abc]

I've been to France, Austria and Switzerland. They're as different from each other as skiing US vs skiing Europe!

The short answer is, it doesn't matter. Whereever you go, you're going to enjoy the new experience.

France is known for its vast linked areas. Personally, I'm not a big fan of it. You end up spending the whole day just "getting" somewhere instead of actually skiing. But a lot of people like it. And the big area does offer more options to deal with weather and snow conditions. Many resorts are high so hold snow till quite late in spring... I've only been to 3 valleys. It's absolutely HUGE. But the lift that connects the different valleys can shut down by bad weather on some days. Geneva is a nice gateway city worth spending a day or two. (Or you can go through Paris, I'm told). Getting from the airport city to the mountains can be a challenge though. Car rental is pretty expensive as you might already know. Worse if you end up having to pay for parking for a week at the resort.

Austria is best known for apres. For someone like me, who normally just go back to the hotel, shower followed by dinner and early to bed, it's quite an eye-opener! Seeing fully grown adults dancing on the table in ski boots is not something you can easily get anywhere in North America! All very good natured, mind you. Not wild, just great fun! The best resorts are mostly out west by the Swiss boarder. Gateway city is Zurich. There're trains that get you to or near the resort, and buses to pratically all corners of the ski villages.

Switzerland is the easiest to get to and get around using the train, which often is part of the "lift" systems! Skiing experience varies a great deal depending on which resort you go to (I suppose that's true of all countries but since I've been to Switzerland the most often...). You can fly to either Geneva or Zurich. Interconnected lifts are not the strong point for the Swiss. Just stick with skiing one "sector" per day instead of trying to "get somewhere". Can be frustrating when you miss the once-every-half-hour train by 30 seconds...

Hotels, pensions, chalets in Austria and Switzerland are usually clean and functional, albeit a bit on the small side (ok, REALLY small!). Now, hotel/chalets in France is a different story. They make hotel rooms in Switzerland/Austria seem HUGE!

Foods in general are excellent. Half board is probably the most economical way to go. Make time for a leasurely lunch on the mountain. You're ON VACATION. Enjoy it.