Everything the Instructors Never Told You About Mogul Skiing

[ski_adk]

I ordered the book last week and I'm still awaiting it. Did it take any of you folks a little bit of time to receive it?

Either way, I was incorporating a lot of the tips from here on Saturday at Pico and wow, it was awesome. I actually felt like I was ripping it up on Upper Pike. Anyways, I can't wait for the new reading material.

 

[jackstraw]

When others have mentioned almost a hop turn, I don't think they mean skis off the snow. If they will allow me to speak for them, I think all they mean is making a quick turn on steep terrain and the necessity for have clearance under the tales of your skis to do so. What they're describing here includes remaining in contact with the snow with your tips. Pressure on the front end of the ski not only allows for a pivot, but allows them to remain controlled and avoid crossing.

As a matter of fact, I watched an instructor at Killington last week demonstrate this pivot/hop turn to his beginner bump class down a groomed trail. He obviously accentuated it but it confirmed my suspition that this part of my technique was correct.


You are right in thinking it isn't as necessary in lower angle or particularly close spaced bumps, because if they're well defined enough, you can find a spot on the bump itself on which to pivot and then slide down the back side.


The bumps I encountered at Snow this weekend on Jaws were steeper and further apart than those on say, Beartrap, so that hop turn, or pivot turn, whatever you want to call it, was necessary to use.

right on! i haven't read this whole thread so excuse me on anything that's already been said. anyway, don't think too much about it and become over technical which can lead to a stiff or rigid motion whereas you want to be as fluent as possible. if you watch the pro's (all the k-marters, remember Donna W on outerlimits doing laps! ) you'll notice the incredible amount of knee movement up and down. if you're not working your abs, you need to be! obviously, doing that keeps the ski in contact w/ the snow thru the troughs.

personally, i don't ski the bumps anymore unless necessary, but im certainly glad for the years i put in. see ya inda woods!

 

[2knees]

My .02 cents on this topic. I’ve noticed that, generally, people are always preaching complete extension down the backside of each mogul always staying in contact with the snow. This is technically correct, no argument from me on that, but personally I think it is imperative at times to know when to simply air it out to the next face. It creates a natural speed check, allows for a complete bypass of the common cross cut troughs we see now and shouldn’t be regarded as improper technique. Keeping your skis in constant contact throughout a bump run can be impossible depending upon the bumps you are in. If they are seeded, sure you have nicely spaced lines with manageble troughs that can make for some great lines. This is not generally the case though. (I.E. any bump run on the north face of Mt. Snow) Call me a dinosaur, but pre shaped/short skis and snowboards, it was much easier to find reasonable lines on just about any bump run. Now we have a tendency to see massive crosscut troughs that snap your skis back around if you arent built like J. Bloom or such and the now you see me now you don’t lines. In these instances, I find it very useful to be able to stay on top per se and really just hit a tiny edge set as I contact the face. The A&E is still there, just not necessarily the driving of the tips back down with as much conviction. You certainly don’t want to drill your tips on a downward plane into the face of 4 foot bump too many times. I guess my point is that there is the optimal “perfect scenario” way to handle bumps but the reality of it is, for me anyway, the ability to incorporate a number of techniques. The placement of hands, the boot pressure, the stance all remain the same.

 

[Greg]

My .02 cents on this topic. I’ve noticed that, generally, people are always preaching complete extension down the backside of each mogul always staying in contact with the snow. This is technically correct, no argument from me on that, but personally I think it is imperative at times to know when to simply air it out to the next face. It creates a natural speed check, allows for a complete bypass of the common cross cut troughs we see now and shouldn’t be regarded as improper technique. Keeping your skis in constant contact throughout a bump run can be impossible depending upon the bumps you are in. If they are seeded, sure you have nicely spaced lines with manageble troughs that can make for some great lines. This is not generally the case though. (I.E. any bump run on the north face of Mt. Snow) Call me a dinosaur, but pre shaped/short skis and snowboards, it was much easier to find reasonable lines on just about any bump run. Now we have a tendency to see massive crosscut troughs that snap your skis back around if you arent built like J. Bloom or such and the now you see me now you don’t lines. In these instances, I find it very useful to be able to stay on top per se and really just hit a tiny edge set as I contact the face. The A&E is still there, just not necessarily the driving of the tips back down with as much conviction. You certainly don’t want to drill your tips on a downward plane into the face of 4 foot bump too many times. I guess my point is that there is the optimal “perfect scenario” way to handle bumps but the reality of it is, for me anyway, the ability to incorporate a number of techniques. The placement of hands, the boot pressure, the stance all remain the same.

Interesting. Is it your observation that the actual shape of bumps and zipperlines have changed signficantly with the new ski technology versus what they were when skis were all straight?

 

[JimG.]

My .02 cents on this topic. I’ve noticed that, generally, people are always preaching complete extension down the backside of each mogul always staying in contact with the snow. This is technically correct, no argument from me on that, but personally I think it is imperative at times to know when to simply air it out to the next face. It creates a natural speed check, allows for a complete bypass of the common cross cut troughs we see now and shouldn’t be regarded as improper technique. Keeping your skis in constant contact throughout a bump run can be impossible depending upon the bumps you are in. If they are seeded, sure you have nicely spaced lines with manageble troughs that can make for some great lines. This is not generally the case though. (I.E. any bump run on the north face of Mt. Snow) Call me a dinosaur, but pre shaped/short skis and snowboards, it was much easier to find reasonable lines on just about any bump run. Now we have a tendency to see massive crosscut troughs that snap your skis back around if you arent built like J. Bloom or such and the now you see me now you don’t lines. In these instances, I find it very useful to be able to stay on top per se and really just hit a tiny edge set as I contact the face. The A&E is still there, just not necessarily the driving of the tips back down with as much conviction. You certainly don’t want to drill your tips on a downward plane into the face of 4 foot bump too many times. I guess my point is that there is the optimal “perfect scenario” way to handle bumps but the reality of it is, for me anyway, the ability to incorporate a number of techniques. The placement of hands, the boot pressure, the stance all remain the same.

Dan specifically addresses this point in his book...he refers to this skill as "trough hopping" and it is considered an essential skill for skiing bump lines properly.

 

[2knees]

Interesting. Is it your observation that the actual shape of bumps and zipperlines have changed signficantly with the new ski technology versus what they were when skis were all straight?

Yes, while many probably would disagree with me, i firmly stand by that opinion as a generalization. Not 100% but you dont see the naturally formed tight lines with the same frequency that existed prior. I'm not suggesting a return to 195 straights for people, but before snowboarding (not bashing boarders here) and shorter skis, the level of skill required was greater therefor limiting the amount of skiers who were in over their heads and skidding sideways and such. That, in turn, makes for severely misshapen bumps/lines. Or, could it be that i am having the dreaded "in the good old days" mentality? Maybe but i dont think so. In the end it's all good though. great thread.

 

[2knees]

Dan specifically addresses this point in his book...he refers to this skill as "trough hopping" and it is considered an essential skill for skiing bump lines properly.

lol sorry, maybe i should read the book.

 

[JimG.]

Dan specifically addresses this point in his book...he refers to this skill as "trough hopping" and it is considered an essential skill for skiing bump lines properly.

lol sorry, maybe i should read the book.

Please don't apologize...my post was meant as an affirmation of your post. Those cross cut troughs are a real pain and they seem to pop up alot more frequently in naturally formed bump fields.

Trough hopping is a skill I learned early on as a way to avoid those ugly troughs. Isn't it amazing that you can ski a perfect line of 15 or so bumps, then suddenly find a cross cut trough, hop it, then ski another perfect line to the bottom? Makes me wonder what happened at that one spot to cause that nasty trough.

 

[SkiDork]

Dan specifically addresses this point in his book...he refers to this skill as "trough hopping" and it is considered an essential skill for skiing bump lines properly.

lol sorry, maybe i should read the book.

Please don't apologize...my post was meant as an affirmation of your post. Those cross cut troughs are a real pain and they seem to pop up alot more frequently in naturally formed bump fields.

Trough hopping is a skill I learned early on as a way to avoid those ugly troughs. Isn't it amazing that you can ski a perfect line of 15 or so bumps, then suddenly find a cross cut trough, hop it, then ski another perfect line to the bottom? Makes me wonder what happened at that one spot to cause that nasty trough.

Gotta agree with you on the troughs. They suck. I encounter a lot of them on upper Wildfire at K.

BTW - SkiNutDave said you're a good guy. Looking forward to Sunday, maybe it'll be a pow day!!!

 

[JimG.]

Dan specifically addresses this point in his book...he refers to this skill as "trough hopping" and it is considered an essential skill for skiing bump lines properly.

lol sorry, maybe i should read the book.

Please don't apologize...my post was meant as an affirmation of your post. Those cross cut troughs are a real pain and they seem to pop up alot more frequently in naturally formed bump fields.

Trough hopping is a skill I learned early on as a way to avoid those ugly troughs. Isn't it amazing that you can ski a perfect line of 15 or so bumps, then suddenly find a cross cut trough, hop it, then ski another perfect line to the bottom? Makes me wonder what happened at that one spot to cause that nasty trough.

Gotta agree with you on the troughs. They suck. I encounter a lot of them on upper Wildfire at K.

BTW - SkiNutDave said you're a good guy. Looking forward to Sunday, maybe it'll be a pow day!!!

I like eternal optimists! One thing is for sure, Sunday will present many opportunities to brush up on ice skiing technique. K27 will be a challenge, if it's open.

 

[SkiDork]

Dan specifically addresses this point in his book...he refers to this skill as "trough hopping" and it is considered an essential skill for skiing bump lines properly.

lol sorry, maybe i should read the book.

Please don't apologize...my post was meant as an affirmation of your post. Those cross cut troughs are a real pain and they seem to pop up alot more frequently in naturally formed bump fields.

Trough hopping is a skill I learned early on as a way to avoid those ugly troughs. Isn't it amazing that you can ski a perfect line of 15 or so bumps, then suddenly find a cross cut trough, hop it, then ski another perfect line to the bottom? Makes me wonder what happened at that one spot to cause that nasty trough.

Gotta agree with you on the troughs. They suck. I encounter a lot of them on upper Wildfire at K.

BTW - SkiNutDave said you're a good guy. Looking forward to Sunday, maybe it'll be a pow day!!!

I like eternal optimists! One thing is for sure, Sunday will present many opportunities to brush up on ice skiing technique. K27 will be a challenge, if it's open.

I think I'll touch up the edges on all the skis tonight.

 

[dipiro]

Hammer,
Look for a few small bumps on a gentle and otherwise groomed trail. If you can, start with just two or three bumps and see how it goes. You can even start with just one bump, actually. The trick is to NOT jump into a steep zipperline right off the bat, but to build your skills slowly and ease into the bumps, starting with just a few, soft, small, rhythmic moguls first, if possible. More about this and the techniques you'll need, in my book.

Skidork,
Thanks for recommending the book. And, yes, the quick turn drill is like old-fashioned wedeling.

Jim,
REALLY good to hear that you, with your previous bump skiing knowledge and ability, find the book worth multiple reads. Thank for mentioning it!

-Dan D

 

[dipiro]

P.S....

Jim,
Nice pics. #3 is looking especially good.

Greg and Jackstraw,
Yeah, working the fundamentals on groomers is totally key. The Finish World-Cuppers are huge fans of flats training. Can also be a way to have fun on boring terrain.

2knees (good name),
I'm coaching competitors these days on really nice, rhythmic, seeded bump courses, but I skied two days ago on good ol', hard, gnarly, irregular, skier-made bumps at Cannon and was reminded of what a difference there is between rhythmic and irregular bumps. Yeah, the skis usually need to leave the snow (trough hop) at some point, in irregular moguls. Also, in any sort of bumps, the skis leave the snow between bumps when the bumper skis fast. Skis-on-the-snow is the rule of thumb for good balance and speed control, but irregular terrain and fast mogul skiing are the two exceptions to the rule.

Greg and 2knees,
Are there more irregular bumps these days? Good question. Many of us have seen perfect, manicured bump courses these days, to which we now compare natural bumps... so maybe our standards are now higher. Or, yes, perhaps the new skis are cutting different bump shapes these days.

Thanks for ordering a copy of the book, ski_adk.

-Dan D

 

[JimG.]

P.S....

Jim,
Nice pics. #3 is looking especially good.

-Dan D

Thanks Dan! Pic# 3 is my screensaver. I'm a big believer in using visualization techniques and that shot does my brain good.

 

[dipiro]

Pic# 3 is my screensaver. I'm a big believer in using visualization techniques and that shot does my brain good.

Yeah, #3... tight stance, upright torso, hands reaching forward... and it looks like you're looking down the trail. Yup, there's good visual food for the brain.

-DD

 

[Greg]

P.S....

Jim,
Nice pics. #3 is looking especially good.

-Dan D

Thanks Dan! Pic# 3 is my screensaver. I'm a big believer in using visualization techniques and that shot does my brain good.

I've also found that sometimes stills don't do a skier's technique full justice. One little bobble, or a split second where the skier's skis splay apart and you can easily look like an intermediate. Considering the fact that in this series of pics, Jim looks very controlled and confident in all four, likely taken only seconds apart, it speaks highly of his form. At least on that run...

 

[dipiro]

I've also found that sometimes stills don't do a skier's technique full justice. One little bobble, or a split second where the skier's skis splay apart and you can easily look like an intermediate. Considering the fact that in this series of pics, Jim looks very controlled and confident in all four, likely taken only seconds apart, it speaks highly of his form. At least on that run...

Really good point, Greg. Very tough to look "on" in a series of snapshots, as snapshots have a way of picking up every little foible. (Did I ever learn that lesson during the book shoots; threw out hundreds of shots for every one used.)
-Dan D

 

[Greg]

I've also found that sometimes stills don't do a skier's technique full justice. One little bobble, or a split second where the skier's skis splay apart and you can easily look like an intermediate. Considering the fact that in this series of pics, Jim looks very controlled and confident in all four, likely taken only seconds apart, it speaks highly of his form. At least on that run...

Really good point, Greg. Very tough to look "on" in a series of snapshots, as snapshots have a way of picking up every little foible. (Did I ever learn that lesson during the book shoots; threw out hundreds of shots for every one used.)
-Dan D

You have some great ones in the book. Where did you shoot them?

 

[SkiDork]

P.S....

Jim,
Nice pics. #3 is looking especially good.

-Dan D

Thanks Dan! Pic# 3 is my screensaver. I'm a big believer in using visualization techniques and that shot does my brain good.

what kind of skis are those? The tops have some pretty wild graphics. Can't place them...

 

[dipiro]

You have some great ones in the book. Where did you shoot them?

Thanks, Greg. All of the photos were shot at Cannon Mountain by photographer John McNamara, a great guy and a real pro. We shot for several hours per week, from December of 2004 through April of 2005.

-Dan D