Fork re-build project

[MR. evil]

So for the last couple of weeks my fork has been getting progressively worse every ride. I sent off an email to Manitoum my fork Mfr and I received an email back stating that the most likely fix for my fork stiction problem was to replace the semi-bath oil. My fork is a 2006 model that I purchased last year and it was explained to me in the email from Manitou that the oil could have gone bad while the fork spent years sitting on a shelf somewhere. It was also explained that the oil may have congealed over time. The Manitou Tech (Shannon) also typed out some simple instructions on how to go about changing this oil. So last night I decided to give this a try.

The instruction I received were to undo the bolts on the bottom of the fork legs, drain the oil, and replace with 16cc of new 5W30 synthetic oil in each leg. I was also told to pull the upper fork legs out about half way before putting in the new oil. This all seemed pretty simple. When it came time to drain the semi-bath oil, the only oil that came out was from the rebound leg side and it was thin but a very dark color. Absolutely nothing came out from the air side of the leg. I shined a flashlight into the small bolt hole in the air side of the fork leg and could see that the inside was covered in a thick jelly like substance. Looks like the Manitou tech was right on the money, the fork oil had congealed. It was also the air side of the fork that had the worst stiction. So it looks like I found the source of the problem. I knew that I needed to clean this stuff out of the fork leg, but had no idea how to go about doing so without completely removing the fork lowers. So that is what I did. It took a bit more effort that I thought it would to separate the two half’s of the fork (upper & lowers). Using a flash light again I could see that the rebound side of the lower fork leg was nice and clean, while the air side was just nasty! I used some disposable lint free shop towels wrapped around the end of a wooden dowel to clean out both side of the fork lower legs. This took more time than anything. I must have gone though half a roll of shop towels on the gunked up air side alone. I also spent a few minutes cleaning up the bottom end of the air side fork stanchion and what I think was a the lower end of the air spring. They were both covered in congealed oil. I then cleaned and lubed the fork seals and reassembled the lower and upper half’s of the fork. It was a bit tricky getting the upper half of the fork legs through the lower fork seals. Using a plastic syringe I injected 16cc of fork oil in the lower half of each leg. I picked up a large syringed used to give kids medicine orally from the drug store, but it only had markings for tea spoons, and milliliters (ML). For those that don’t know, 1cc equals 1ml. After putting in the new oil I closed up the bottom of the fork, pumped the air chamber back up and put the fork back on the bike. The entire project took me about 1.5 hours.

The fork feels much better than it did, but still not as good as it has been. I am hoping that the new oil just needs a few rides to get worked in, so I am going to wait a couple of rides for final judgment. I was going to take pictures of the process, and even had a camera handy. But very quickly after opening up the fork and getting my hand covered in oil I realized I would not be taking any pictures. It would have taken forever to clean my hand each time I wanted to snap a pictiture.

 

[big oz]

If it is still sticking you might have a bushing issue. Another possibilty is air entrapped in the dampening circuit....this sometime gives it a notchy feel.

 

[MR. evil]

If it is still sticking you might have a bushing issue. Another possibilty is air entrapped in the dampening circuit....this sometime gives it a notchy feel.

I rode on the fork yesterday and it feels pretty good. I was told to store the bike upside down for a day to let the new oil work it's way to the seals. I also put a very thin coat of Manitou M-Prep greas on the uppers.

 

[bvibert]

The fork is the one thing I've yet to dig into on my bike, yet. Nice work on a successful job Tim.

 

[MR. evil]

Its starting to look like my re-build was not as good as I hoped. The fork felt really good for a couple of weeks, but that last couple of rides it has started to feel like crap again. On this mornings ride I had 2 OTB's that IMO were fork releated. One could have been my mistake (but I doubt it) the other was a log pile crossing. I made it over the log pile, and about 2 to 3 feet after the pile was another 3" diameter log that cuased my to go OTB/ Ussually my fork (when working well) would roll over something that size like it wasnt even there. It also looks like either my shock pump it broken, or the fork isn't holding air. After my ride I checked the pressure and it was zero. Pumped it back up to 100 psi and when I unscrewed the pump from the fork schrader valve it sounded like a lot of air was released. i put the pump back on and the pressure guage was at zero.

I am going to call manitou in the morning about getting the fork serviced. I may try to pick up a used fork to use as a spare while mine is getting re-built. Anyone have a 140mm to 160mm fork for sale?

 

[ckofer]

Have you poked around for perspectives at http://www.mtbr.com/ ?

 

[MR. evil]

Have you poked around for perspectives at http://www.mtbr.com/ ?

Not yet, looking for a cheap close out deal first. If I get a used fork I rather it be local. I will look over on CrankFire.com

 

[bvibert]

Good luck Tim, let us know how the factory rebuild goes...

 

[big oz]

Manitou factory rebuilds go like this. "Hey, hows my fork doing that I sent in?" "Not too good, needs a lot of work...and we don't stock parts for anything over a week old..." "What can I do?" "We can offer you a leftover 08 @ $$...hows that sound?" "...guess I'll just do that then."

You may get lucky, but a majority of the time they just offer you an OEM leftover for a good price. Problem with that is you will be dealing with the same stuff a few years down the road. I've noticed a huge decline in complete bikes spec'd with Manitouover the past 5 years. They definitely have some durability issues when it comes to riding in the Northeast. They are a So Ca, smooth terrain, dry weather fork.

If you want outstanding service with fair pricing check out these guys.....the shop I work at uses these guys on a regular basis when we don't have specific tools or parts on hand.

Suspension Experts
828-255-0205
89 Thompson Street
Unit K
Asheville, NC 28803

contact guy is Kevin Booth

mtbsuspensionexperts.com

 

[MR. evil]

Manitou factory rebuilds go like this. "Hey, hows my fork doing that I sent in?" "Not too good, needs a lot of work...and we don't stock parts for anything over a week old..." "What can I do?" "We can offer you a leftover 08 @ $$...hows that sound?" "...guess I'll just do that then."

You may get lucky, but a majority of the time they just offer you an OEM leftover for a good price. Problem with that is you will be dealing with the same stuff a few years down the road. I've noticed a huge decline in complete bikes spec'd with Manitouover the past 5 years. They definitely have some durability issues when it comes to riding in the Northeast. They are a So Ca, smooth terrain, dry weather fork.

If you want outstanding service with fair pricing check out these guys.....the shop I work at uses these guys on a regular basis when we don't have specific tools or parts on hand.

Suspension Experts
828-255-0205
89 Thompson Street
Unit K
Asheville, NC 28803

contact guy is Kevin Booth

mtbsuspensionexperts.com

Oz

Thanks for the recommendation! I will defiantly give those guys a call.

What are your thoughts on the RockShox Domain forks? They can be had pretty cheap and seems like one would be a good back-up fork while my Nixon is getting fixed.

If I can find a good deal I may get something it little burlier to use as my primary fork and use the Nixon as a back-up. The prices on left-over Pikes and Revelations are pretty hard to beat, but they only come in 140mm versions. I would like something in 145mm to 160mm version range. The new revelation comes in 150mm version, but it’s a little pricy and moneys tight.

 

[big oz]

Domains are tough to beat as far as durability and plushness. Super simple design that works...no uber complicated dampening. Fork goes up and down with just enough control to tune it. Now that Rock Shox is part of the whole SRAM/Avid/TruVativ empire, they really stand behind their stuff with awesome customer support. I rode one of those forks on my SX and sold it and bought a Zoke 55....wish I kept the Domain. My only gripe was that out of the box for the riding I was doing it was too plush. Nothing that a quick oil viscosity changeand stiffer spring didn't help. Why did I change it? Wanted a lighter fork for all mountain, but I only ride gnarly stuff with that bike anyway so the weight didn't really matter (1/2 lb or so)....but again, I should have kept it. Pikes and Revs are great too, but they are pricey, but a lot lighter.....so if you are trying to build a sub 28lb 6" bike, it may be the only way to go.

 

[MR. evil]

Domains are tough to beat as far as durability and plushness. Super simple design that works...no uber complicated dampening. Fork goes up and down with just enough control to tune it. Now that Rock Shox is part of the whole SRAM/Avid/TruVativ empire, they really stand behind their stuff with awesome customer support. I rode one of those forks on my SX and sold it and bought a Zoke 55....wish I kept the Domain. My only gripe was that out of the box for the riding I was doing it was too plush. Nothing that a quick oil viscosity changeand stiffer spring didn't help. Why did I change it? Wanted a lighter fork for all mountain, but I only ride gnarly stuff with that bike anyway so the weight didn't really matter (1/2 lb or so)....but again, I should have kept it. Pikes and Revs are great too, but they are pricey, but a lot lighter.....so if you are trying to build a sub 28lb 6" bike, it may be the only way to go.

Thanks for the feed-back. I am no weight wennie, and if I guess I would say my bike is around 29 to 30lbs. I will have to look up what my Nixon weights, but I think its in the 4.75lb range. Than means I would be adding over a pound to my bike. I like the durability aspect of a coil fork, one of the reasons I run a coil rear. But I am not sure how I feel about the lack of adjustability on those Domains. Than again I am a set-it and forget it type of guy. Maybe it will take me longer to get the Domain set up to my liking. But once I do it should be all set for a while. I need to think about all this.

 

[MR. evil]

Oz

I contacted your contact at Suspension experts and they can re-build the fork for about $100, and turn it around in under a week. I also contacted Manitou and even though I am one month over the one year warranty the will re-build the fork for free as its ‘close enough to one year’. For an additional $100 Manitou will replace the intrinsic damper for a TPC+ damper. The intrinsic damper works very well, but it’s finicky and almost impossible to service unless you’re a trained professional. The TPC+ damper is very good, and also very simple and easy to service. I am seriously considering having the damper swap done.

I am on the fence about picking up a Domain 318. While it has great reviews the thing weights 2lbs more than my current fork. I may save a bit and pick up the new 150mm Revelation in the fall.

 

[big oz]

So in short, you can get a rebuild for free.....but it will blow up gain. However, if you spend a $100, it will work. Gotta love Manitou.

 

[MR. evil]

So in short, you can get a rebuild for free.....but it will blow up gain. However, if you spend a $100, it will work. Gotta love Manitou.

Actually I asked about the damper swap. From my reading it seems like the Intrinsic damper works really great (when working), but can get emo and is hard to service. The TPC+ damper is super simple, works great and is very easy to service.

The new TPC+ damper is $70 plus $25 for labor. The thing that bugs me is having to pay the labor charge to have it installed. If I don’t have the TPC damper installed they will have to re-build the intrinsic damper for free under warranty. Seems to me that it would be easier and faster to install a new damper than to re-build one. I am going to email them back and see if they will waive the labor charge for the damper swap.