Haystack / Hermitage news

[Smellytele]

My hunch is that if/when some details of the arrangement come out, we'll see that Jim Barnes will have little to no say in club operations going forward.

I'm pretty sure the likely members behind this arrangement get that the club will have significantly reduced to no chance of attracting new members with Jim Barnes having any significant say in day to day operations, or possibly any presence at the club at all other than as a paying member.



Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app

Still hard to attract anyone when there has been nothing but issues for awhile. What did Barnes do that anyone else would have done different? Not buy a six pack? Besides that it was really just a cash follow issue. Not enough coming in so you have to start paying bills on an on need basis (daily operating costs) not what the money was meant for (building paid for properties) It is the whole business plan that is at fault.

 

[sull1102]

Still hard to attract anyone when there has been nothing but issues for awhile. What did Barnes do that anyone else would have done different? Not buy a six pack? Besides that it was really just a cash follow issue. Not enough coming in so you have to start paying bills on an on need basis (daily operating costs) not what the money was meant for (building paid for properties) It is the whole business plan that is at fault.

Oh no there's a lot of problems caused by Barnes, you aren't giving enough credit. Let's see, where to begin, maybe not buy the f-ing AIRPORT, just saying. If this operation was trimmed down to the ski area, golf course, Hermitage Inn, and the construction of slopeside condos and homes this place would and will work. The 6-pack was a mistake, should have gone for a HS quad, but I understand the rich have wants so give them a Jackson Gore style bubble quad,that would've saved a million bucks on the lift at least. Then instead of Skytrac installing the sexiest looking fixed grips I've ever seen I'd go for preowned or just ya know normal fixed grips without the architecural stone work everywhere. Moving on to snowmaking, ya don't need the automatic Techno Alpin everywhere, just some good old Polecats or the best HKDs will be cheaper and perform well. Then there's the super special "Cattillac" that could have been skipped along with the totally random prefabbed cape house at midmountain there's another $250,000 savings at least.a Honestly it's pretty easy to see how this did not work and could easily be brought back.

Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[drjeff]

Oh no there's a lot of problems caused by Barnes, you aren't giving enough credit. Let's see, where to begin, maybe not buy the f-ing AIRPORT, just saying. If this operation was trimmed down to the ski area, golf course, Hermitage Inn, and the construction of slopeside condos and homes this place would and will work. The 6-pack was a mistake, should have gone for a HS quad, but I understand the rich have wants so give them a Jackson Gore style bubble quad,that would've saved a million bucks on the lift at least. Then instead of Skytrac installing the sexiest looking fixed grips I've ever seen I'd go for preowned or just ya know normal fixed grips without the architecural stone work everywhere. Moving on to snowmaking, ya don't need the automatic Techno Alpin everywhere, just some good old Polecats or the best HKDs will be cheaper and perform well. Then there's the super special "Cattillac" that could have been skipped along with the totally random prefabbed cape house at midmountain there's another $250,000 savings at least.a Honestly it's pretty easy to see how this did not work and could easily be brought back.

Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app

On the flipside though, given their target clientele, they may not of been able to attract the number of members they did without the on hill amenities.

I agree 100% that the airport move, even if apparently some of the back story was the purchase enabled them to get more developable land for future developable housing areas, wasn't a good move.

The six pack went in because the members wanted it, and enough of them apparently had family numbers that wouldn't fit on a quad together, and they literally HAD to compete with the lift system up the street that many members were used too and wanted at least the same for their club.

They were targeting a premium lifestyle. They were targeting clientele who often are used to high end amenities and facilities. They were sold that vision by Jim Barnes, and unless he delivered on at least some of it, my hunch is the membership wouldn't have reached the levels it did, as word of mouth from members to friends did play a roll in increasing membership numbers.. The old "keeping up with the Joneses" scenario

Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[mister moose]

I agree, Barnes is out. How they make it work with $26mm is debt is the real question.

Putting some numbers to it, what was there, 700 members? Was there different classes of membership?

26mm at prime plus 1 is 6%, 6% on 26mm for 15 year term for 700 members is only $2,314 per member per year. At 500 members paying it's $3,240 a year, per member.

 

[icecoast1]

Oh no there's a lot of problems caused by Barnes, you aren't giving enough credit. Let's see, where to begin, maybe not buy the f-ing AIRPORT, just saying. If this operation was trimmed down to the ski area, golf course, Hermitage Inn, and the construction of slopeside condos and homes this place would and will work. The 6-pack was a mistake, should have gone for a HS quad, but I understand the rich have wants so give them a Jackson Gore style bubble quad,that would've saved a million bucks on the lift at least. Then instead of Skytrac installing the sexiest looking fixed grips I've ever seen I'd go for preowned or just ya know normal fixed grips without the architecural stone work everywhere. Moving on to snowmaking, ya don't need the automatic Techno Alpin everywhere, just some good old Polecats or the best HKDs will be cheaper and perform well. Then there's the super special "Cattillac" that could have been skipped along with the totally random prefabbed cape house at midmountain there's another $250,000 savings at least.a Honestly it's pretty easy to see how this did not work and could easily be brought back.

Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app

It's hard to 2nd guess the 6 pack seeing as it was ordered and installed before the financial problems really began. At that time they were still selling memberships and real estate and things were still looking up. The downward spiral didn't really start until after it went in

 

[sull1102]

It's hard to 2nd guess the 6 pack seeing as it was ordered and installed before the financial problems really began. At that time they were still selling memberships and real estate and things were still looking up. The downward spiral didn't really start until after it went in

No, it's too easy to second guess that heated bubble 6 when the ride time is under 5 minutes and it covers 1100 vert on a pretty well protected lift line where they planned to run weekends only and were replacing a triple and keeping a backup triple that covers 80% of the same terrain(aka capacity was not the issue here). The ski school doesn't use the lift, they primarily stick to the lower mountain, so that isn't even a big factor. This is all about keeping up with Mount Snow and Okemo when all they needed was a bubble high speed quad that would have provided an identical skier experience.

All that being said, did they get a deal from Dopp because Poma owns the So VT market lately or another customer backed out so the parts where readily available, ala how Ragged ended up with a 6 Pack.

Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[sull1102]

Putting some numbers to it, what was there, 700 members? Was there different classes of membership?

26mm at prime plus 1 is 6%, 6% on 26mm for 15 year term for 700 members is only $2,314 per member per year. At 500 members paying it's $3,240 a year, per member.

700 sounds about right, 600 is what I heard a little over a year ago. There are different member levels, many. The people that signed on early paid in a lot less than what they're looking for now, there's also the equity level memberships, but I've got no clue if that means they actually have a stake or if it's just a cute title for the nice 4th floor locker room in the clubhouse.

Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[Jully]

It's hard to 2nd guess the 6 pack seeing as it was ordered and installed before the financial problems really began. At that time they were still selling memberships and real estate and things were still looking up. The downward spiral didn't really start until after it went in

If it was installed and then a bit afterwards financial problems began I would argue that those circumstances indicate the 6-pack may well have contributed to the problem.

The complaint I've heard is that it was a big expenditure that they couldn't afford at the time. I do not know how it was paid for and if payments for it ACTUALLY strained the club's finances, but it appears to me as a relative outsider that it is definitely second guess-able.

 

[Smellytele]

They were targeting a premium lifestyle. They were targeting clientele who often are used to high end amenities and facilities. They were sold that vision by Jim Barnes, and unless he delivered on at least some of it, my hunch is the membership wouldn't have reached the levels it did, as word of mouth from members to friends did play a roll in increasing membership numbers.. The old "keeping up with the Joneses" scenario

Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app

Wonder if these people are still friends?

Is there a definitive answer that Barnes is out?

 

[drjeff]

A picture was put up this afternoon on their Instagram page of some of their golf course maintenance staff removing the winter covers from the greens....

Probably not a bad sign for their operations outlook

Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[icecoast1]

A picture was put up this afternoon on their Instagram page of some of their golf course maintenance staff removing the winter covers from the greens....

Probably not a bad sign for their operations outlook

Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app

Could have very well been done at the request of the bank, hard to sell a golf course if all your greens are covered and dead. Memorial day weekend will be the telling sign, in years past it had been when they started ramping back up for the summer. Should be a lot clearer then if they're actually operating or just doing basic maintenance until its sold

 

[Smellytele]

Could have very well been done at the request of the bank, hard to sell a golf course if all your greens are covered and dead. Memorial day weekend will be the telling sign, in years past it had been when they started ramping back up for the summer. Should be a lot clearer then if they're actually operating or just doing basic maintenance until its sold

They got a 26m loan as noted above so not so sure who would be selling???

 

[icecoast1]

They got a 26m loan as noted above so not so sure who would be selling???

I might have misread the article but it seemed like they had an offer but were still working through the details of it? The latest article is saying it's going to court to decide if it's going to a receiver or they could use that loan so the work being done at the golf course could very well be the bank just keeping things in proper order as they have been the last few weeks. Barnes still hasn't paid his taxes so he can't even legally have employees working

 

[drjeff]

I might have misread the article but it seemed like they had an offer but were still working through the details of it? The latest article is saying it's going to court to decide if it's going to a receiver or they could use that loan so the work being done at the golf course could very well be the bank just keeping things in proper order as they have been the last few weeks. Barnes still hasn't paid his taxes so he can't even legally have employees working

I've heard from 2 member friends the last few days, that apparently the final approval of the deal is just a formality, as Bershire Bank is more than happy to get paid and not go through auction process...

One friend isn't sure of Barnes's status going forward, while the other, seems to think that he will be removed from any operational and/or promotions duties for the club....

Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[Glenn]

This story just keeps getting more interesting!

 

[drjeff]

My hunch how this eventually ends....

The club with the ski are and golf course will continue to operate as Members have come to expect. Annual dues will be probably double (or more) from what they were before. Jim Barnes will be out in any administrative roll for the club at all. Jim Barnes will be facing a few lawsuits, mainly from whose who bought property from the club and never had the work finished. The real estate holdings of the club with respect to multiple local inns and buildings they purchased will see a number of them sold off. The member driven finance board will be keeping a very close eye on the club's finances with Jim Barnes out of their way. There will be a high degree of transparency between the finance board and the members. Assuming the overall economy doesn't tank in the next few years, you'll once again see an uptick in new members in 2 to 3 years (presuming this does all go through in the next few months). Peak/Mount Snow won't, and hasn't looked at buying back the facility. Possibly the Stratton connection may be a roll in the financing of the new deal.... Still TBD....

 

[Smellytele]

My hunch how this eventually ends....

Jim Barnes will be facing a few lawsuits, mainly from whose who bought property from the club and never had the work finished.

Jim Barnes will be facing? Hopefully he wasn't stupid enough to have this in his name and not a corporation. It would be the club that would be facing litigation.

 

[drjeff]

Jim Barnes will be facing? Hopefully he wasn't stupid enough to have this in his name and not a corporation. It would be the club that would be facing litigation.

In theory, that's correct.....

In this case, I wouldn't be so sure that he took all the necessary steps to shield his personal liability

 

[sull1102]

Jim Barnes will be facing? Hopefully he wasn't stupid enough to have this in his name and not a corporation. It would be the club that would be facing litigation.

He is already facing multiple lawsuits against him for financial hijinks and wrongful termination as well as multiple local and federal investigations.

Sent from my LG-H820 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[slatham]

If he committed fraud, misrepresentations, outright lied etc he personally will have culpability.