I dislike Bush

[ChileMass]

Aside from the obsession with fundamentalist religion, most of the rest of the Republican agenda, including tax reduction, checking immigration, and commitment to democracy abroad are all good in my view......

Weather they want it or not...

If you can still get your hands on it, there was a very interesting cover story and article in Newsweek a couple weeks back about growing democracy in the Middle East. Last month, thousands of Lebanese protested in the streets until the Syrian-backed government fell and the Syrian army packed up and went home. Several prominent Lebanese educators and opposition politicians claimed it could not have happened without the US overthrow of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. Similarly, Egypt is holding elections which allow candidates from outside Mubarak's party which has ruled unopposed since 1981. Kyrgyzstan just threw out its dictator, a corrupt former Soviet. Democracy is running rampant in Asia, and this is a wonderful, wonderful thing for them and us.

The rise of democracy in China and Russia in the past 20 years has made our world richer and safer. The last remaining threats to western democracy come from the Islamic world where dictators oppress hundreds of millions who want democratic freedom and institutions (see Lebanon example above). When democracy flourishes in the Islamic world over the next 20 years, will Bush be looked on as a visionary - ? Possibly, especially in countries that were able to become democratic.

My personal opinion is that here at home we take democracy far too much for granted and assume people who are without it don't want it. Perhaps they can't even ask for it without inviting danger for themselves and their families. This was the case in Iraq before 4/2003, and remains the status of much of the rest of the Islamic world. Don't be so quick to deny these folks their opportunity. Go get that Newsweek and read it......

 

[dmc]

I hear ya... But forcing our values on other cultures is scarey..

It's going to create havoc on the Islamic world..

 

[dmc]

Perhaps they can't even ask for it without inviting danger for themeleves and their families.

How about the danger to me and my family...???

The 911 terrorists compared us to crusaders..
My brother and sister inlaw did service in Iraq... May have to go back again..

I'm not sure after the oil dries up that I'll care much about those people.. Especially if it takes trillions of OUR dollars to pull it off...

Lower taxes??? How about stop fighting...

 

[Peter the great]

ok.....

ok, what ever happened to the no insulting crap? I get in trouble for hurling insults like flaming feces and they get away with calling me a troll and a bunch of other crazy crap? oh, and by the way, his message reeked of "I am better than you" so cut the crap. I am not saying that the bush family are bad people I am just saying they are bad leaders and we shouldn't have him in office anymore. I am sick of hearing people down grade clinton and praise bush when it should be the other way around. I heard a lady say when clinton was still president clinton should be out of office cause he tapped a little ass.(pardon) I mean really, he did good for the economy and I will probly get kicked off for this but really how can anyone really say that bush is doing a good job when he is sending our sons and fathers and husbands over to die fighting a country that has never done anything to us? he didn't fund al quada, he killed 10s of thousands yes, but bush has killed over a hundred thousand!

help us help us america, our leader is sending our soldiers over to a foreign land to die for oil!! help us!

oh wait we are america. so you know what? I am going to get kicked off for this so if you want to talk to me about politics, write to me at icebeastofthecavern@yahoo.com or, if you want me off this website and to never come back do the same. just tell me. 8)

 

[riverc0il]

i think Peter the Great is actually a conservative trying to give liberals a bad name by purposely acting like a tool. any one else? obviously a troll as no posts have been made (that i have seen) in any non-bush discussion threads.

 

[dmc]

Re: ok.....

I am not saying that the bush family are bad people

OOOOH!!! LET ME - LET ME!!!!

I can cite a ton of stuff... DWI's(W), drug use(W), killing people in traffic accidents(Laura), Buying a baseball team and bilking the taxpayers for a new stadium then quitting with profits(W), taking us to war and lieing(W), Getting your family to get you out of going to war(W)...
I could go on...

 

[awf170]

Re: ok.....

ok, what ever happened to the no insulting crap? I get in trouble for hurling insults like flaming feces and they get away with calling me a troll and a bunch of other crazy crap? oh, and by the way, his message reeked of "I am better than you" so cut the crap. I am not saying that the bush family are bad people I am just saying they are bad leaders and we shouldn't have him in office anymore. I am sick of hearing people down grade clinton and praise bush when it should be the other way around. I heard a lady say when clinton was still president clinton should be out of office cause he tapped a little ass.(pardon) I mean really, he did good for the economy and I will probly get kicked off for this but really how can anyone really say that bush is doing a good job when he is sending our sons and fathers and husbands over to die fighting a country that has never done anything to us? he didn't fund al quada, he killed 10s of thousands yes, but bush has killed over a hundred thousand!

help us help us america, our leader is sending our soldiers over to a foreign land to die for oil!! help us!

oh wait we are america. so you know what? I am going to get kicked off for this so if you want to talk to me about politics, write to me at icebeastofthecavern@yahoo.com or, if you want me off this website and to never come back do the same. just tell me. 8)

do u actually ski or hike.... because u no this is a skiing and hiking forum, i bet there are some forums around about politics

 

[pedxing]

Actually - I think STG is making an effort and don't think he is a troll.

And Stephen don't worry about getting kicked off for your political opinions. There are vehement voices on both sides of the debates. I think the Bush presidency is an ongoing disaster and think this satire was eerily prophetic: http://chak.org/pages/onion/bush_nightmare.html

 

[noreaster]

In 1988 I voted for George Herbert Walker Bush who defeated Democrat Michael Dukakis. I had and still do have a lot of respect for the 1988 president Bush. He clearly was the better choice over Democrat Michael Dukakis. President Bush was from New England, born in Milton, Mass, and graduated from Yale. His Wife Barbara was from Rye, NY. One of President Bush’s significant accomplishments was Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START) with Mikhail Gorbachev. He did an ok job in office.

I can honestly say if I knew then what I know now, I would not have voted for President Bush in 1988. Winning the 1988 presidency made it possible for his son GWB to defeat Ann Richards in the 1993 race for Governor of Texas. Ann was an excellent goveonor of Texas. GWB played on the homophobia fears to defeat Govenor Richards. This is where GWB learned that fear is power. GWB went on to set a new record in the most executions (20) in one year by any Governor. One of the women executed was for killing her husband who repeatable beat the crap out of her. Since GWB became president I have changed from a registered Republican to a registered Democrat. I plan on voting for every Democrat on every level of politics until the right wing extremist stop ruining this country. The good news is in 3.5 years we get to vote for a new president. . Until then I don't take politics too seriously. I didn't vote for GWB so my consious is clear.

 

[awf170]

man everyone really hates bush, i dont think he is that good but i didnt like kerry either... now only if clinton could run again...

 

[ChileMass]

Re: ok.....

I am going to get kicked off for this.........or, if you want me off this website and to never come back do the same. just tell me. 8)

Peter - calm down and please read your private messages.

 

[loafer89]

OK This is Mrs. Loafer 89
I have read all of the posting about GWB and I have A few things to say:

1) When Bill Clinton lied about getting oral "whatever" nobody DIED.

2) GW's first justification for going into Iraq was was WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION none were found.

3) His second justification was that Saddam Hussein was a tyrant and a war criminal, this is
True but there are many more abusive leaders of nations out there and we are not fighting them.

Now that at last he has found one he thinks will work
WE COME TO BRING THEM DEMOCRACY.
IF this works it is a good thing but completly by accident. Bush went into Iraq basically to get control over the oil thats it, and you can dress it up any way you want to, it's about money and oil thats all folks. If it wasn't, why haven't we sanctioned Saudia Arabia who we know financially supported the 9/11 terrorists. Because we can't live with out there OIL.

 

[dmc]

i think Peter the Great is actually a conservative trying to give liberals a bad name by purposely acting like a tool. any one else? obviously a troll as no posts have been made (that i have seen) in any non-bush discussion threads.

He just sent me a PM blasting me for supporting the "war"....

I have no idea why he would think that... I;m the biggest Liberal around...

But I think it has something to do with my brother and his wife being depoloyed to Iraq and Afgahnistan. ..
Their both Doctors.. And are back now...

Hey - it was my brothers choice to join the Airforce - not mine.... I'm just glad he made it back OK..

 

[riverc0il]

man everyone really hates bush, i dont think he is that good but i didnt like kerry either... now only if clinton could run again...

how could you like clinton but not like kerry? their politics aren't that different really, just their personalities and ways they presented themselves. i think a lot of that had to do with how the presidential race has changed over the years. every race seems like candidates have to be more careful of what they say and do.

 

[Vortex]

OK This is Mrs. Loafer 89
I have read all of the posting about GWB and I have A few things to say:

1) When Bill Clinton lied about getting oral "whatever" nobody DIED.

2) GW's first justification for going into Iraq was was WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION none were found.

3) His second justification was that Saddam Hussein was a tyrant and a war criminal, this is
True but there are many more abusive leaders of nations out there and we are not fighting them.

Now that at last he has found one he thinks will work
WE COME TO BRING THEM DEMOCRACY.
IF this works it is a good thing but completly by accident. Bush went into Iraq basically to get control over the oil thats it, and you can dress it up any way you want to, it's about money and oil thats all folks. If it wasn't, why haven't we sanctioned Saudia Arabia who we know financially supported the 9/11 terrorists. Because we can't live with out there OIL.

You should log in and come up with your own tagline. :wink: I know you will have more to add than your Hubby. Just kidding We like Kevin. I like responsible discussion with different opinions. Please join in.

 

[loafer89]

Okay Bob, I encouraged her to join the board since she does technically ski, if you consider bunny slopes skiing :roll:

It's interesting in this household as I am a Republican and she is a Democrate.

I just thought that I would share these bumper stickers seen while driving in Vermont last weekend:

To save a tree remove a Bush

When Clinton lied nobody died

I know that you will have more to add than your hubby? :-?

 

[Vortex]

Okay Bob, I encouraged her to join the board since she does technically ski, if you consider bunny slopes skiing :roll:

It's interesting in this household as I am a Republican and she is a Democrate.

I just thought that I would share these bumper stickers seen while driving in Vermont last weekend:

To save a tree remove a Bush

When Clinton lied nobody died

I know that you will have more to add than your hubby? :-?

I'm trying to keep the b--- busting to a minimal. :wink: I like opinions that are well though out. I may not agree with them. Just give a resonable point. I have no problem with you Bud We skiied in the NCP you da man.

 

[JimG.]

Anyone go skiing yesterday?

 

[Stephen]

OK, so I haven't ranted in a while... I've been saving it up, I guess...

So, which is it? Did we go to Iraq for oil, and there was none to be had, so gas prices are skyrocketing? Or is Bush pocketing all the proceeds? Is one man bigger than the market? This is one hell of a conspiracy.

Me, I prefer Occum's Razor. Closer shave.

1) We went in to liberate Iraq. It's succeeding. When in doubt, return to the liberal playbook of blood for oil and no WMD.

2)Did you belive Clinton, Gore and Kerry when THEY said there were WMD? Or are you just smarter than everyone else in the world? If so, how could you fail this nation by not correcting the record 15 years ago? And how long does it take to hide WMD anyhow? Let's see. UN confirms WMDs, Gulf war I... Clinton plays with himself for 8 years, 10 years later, Gulf war II, no WMD! *GASP*

3)I believe quite a few people died due to Clinton... remember Somalia? Bosnia? Anyone? How about Vince Foster? Ron Brown? (I'll bet I'll be labelled a kook for buying into the VF and RB death conspiracy, but which do you think is easier to do, bump off a couple troublemakers, or create an entire wag-the-dog war for the sake of a few bucks that NO ONE seems to be making...)

4) How many forest fires have occurred because all removal of dead lumber was prevented? Anyone notice the increase in the number and severity of forest fires during the Clinton years?

5) Saudi Arabia... OK. So, we are straightforward that the relationship with SA IS about oil. Yet, that in and of itself proves that Iraq is about oil too? Non sequitor.

6) Not fighting other dictators? Which is it, should we NOT be fighting dictators, or should we? Are you unhappy that there isn't ENOUGH war?! Good grief, one liberation at a time, please.

7) It' sex. S-E-X. Oral SEX. The problem with morality in this nation is that we can't call it what it is. You have to say "Whatever" because to call it SEX would mean your war hero Clinton actually LIED under oath. Perjury is a serious crime in this nation. In a nation of laws, perjury is the one thing that can destroy it utterly. Try it sometime... I doubt you'll get off as easily. (Pun intended).


Til next month or so,

-Stephen


-Stephen

 

[Lostone]

1) We went in to liberate Iraq. It's succeeding.

We never went in to liberate Iraq. Look at all the stories from back then. We went in because Sadam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and was a threat to the US. What's more, tho he said he didn't have them, and the inspectors were unable to find them, we had the ispectors withdraw and invaded.

If that is success, I would hate to see failure. Just because our media doesn't tell us what Iraqis think doesn't mean they aren't constantly complaining about our "liberation".

Because we don't count their dead, don't think they don't.

Did you belive Clinton, Gore and Kerry when THEY said there were WMD?

They said they believed there were WMDs, but didn't invade because they might be there.

How about Vince Foster? Ron Brown? (I'll bet I'll be labelled a kook for buying into the VF and RB death conspiracy, but which do you think is easier to do, bump off a couple troublemakers, or create an entire wag-the-dog war for the sake of a few bucks that NO ONE seems to be making...)
Now if we could have the same level of investigations into how DhuBya manipulated intelligence to get us into this illegal war as we did into those deaths, I think the repos would be very depressed. He hides his lies behind national security and executive privilege. But his lies have killed hundreds of thousands, and you equate that to two deaths repeatedly investigated?

6) Not fighting other dictators? Which is it, should we NOT be fighting dictators, or should we?

I think the point is (Mine would be) that if we were in it to get rid of dictators and spread democracy there were many, much better places to start. Ergo, that is not the reason for Iraq.

Perjury is a serious crime in this nation. In a nation of laws, perjury is the one thing that can destroy it utterly.

I would think that falsely starting a war, sending brave citizens to their death, and to kill many innocent people, garnering the mistrust to hatred of most of the world is far worse than perjury about sex.

I hate Bush! He has started with a budget surplus and has turned it into a deficit. How will we ever pay off the debt he has added to the debt we already had?

He started with the world on our side, and turned most of it against us.

Remember him saying "I'm a uniter. Not a divider"? He has increased the divisions within our own nation. I don't see any way that we'll be brough together again.

It will take generations to undo what he has done.