ikon pass details released

[Jully]

yea, I skied 45 days on max last year, and will hit 45 again this year. that would be $2250 of revenue to the areas on my $600 pass purchase. I doubt there are enough people underusing the pass to make up that difference.

Very true, and hence why Alterra thinks they can make MORE with Ikon. Just sucks for all of us.

 

[Zermatt]

yea, I skied 45 days on max last year, and will hit 45 again this year. that would be $2250 of revenue to the areas on my $600 pass purchase. I doubt there are enough people underusing the pass to make up that difference.

You're the one who brought the whole thing down!

 

[boston_e]

Why is it so hard to accept that the MAX Pass is dead because it was financially unsustainable for the ski areas?

Yes, it was a killer deal for skiers. But when they split up the revenue at the end of the year it was clearly a horrible deal for the areas.

If that is the case, they maybe should have just re-structured how each mountain was reimbursed for skier visits.

I know plenty of people who had the Max Pass who ended up skiing 15-20 days on it, where they might have only skied 8 or 10 times if they were just having to buy day tickets and picking and choosing the ideal weather days to go.

Given the struggles of resorts, especially on marginal snow weekends, I would think that simply getting people to the mountain to buy lunches, apres ski beers, gloves, lessons etc would be a big hurdle to cross and the lift ticket reimbursement is a somewhat insignificant part of their overall income.

In other words, given that they are already there spinning the lifts, would they rather have someone there on a $25 lift ticket and have them also spend other money at the resort on lunch and accessories, or would they rather have them stay home and spend $0.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

I mean, yes, and no. there are a ton of days where I do not spend a nickel on site. I am a beer and sandwich in a backpack kind of guy almost always. on the other hand, there definitely have been the occasional on site beers and food purchases and merch purchases for gifts and stuff, which I would not have spent money on had I bought a lift ticket. I just don't think those purchases add up to the lost income from lift tix.

I do agree in general that skiing is, for most resorts, secondary to services. the whole epic pass mantra is let them ski cheap and then fuck em good on lodging and food/bev

 

[Killingtime]

If that is the case, they maybe should have just re
Yeah that's the way I think they are looking at it. Skied four days at Steamboat on the Max Pass and spent a ton on food and drinks at the mountain. Not sure of the revenue sharing structure of these passes but apparently it makes sense to do it.

 

[Zand]

I don't buy into the revenue thing here. Like others have said, lift ticket revenue should be just an extra bonus to ski area. No matter how many people are there skiing, they're still paying the same amount of employees to do the exact same work, running the same lifts, lighting the same buildings etc. Sure some people don't spend a dime when they go skiing must most (and especially families) are going to buy lunch, equipment, gifts, drinks, etc instead of not being there and spending 0.

Every single eastern resort that was on the Max pass except Stratton is going to lose a decent chunk of that revenue and those people aren't showing up to buy day tickets.

 

[boston_e]

I mean, yes, and no. there are a ton of days where I do not spend a nickel on site. I am a beer and sandwich in a backpack kind of guy almost always. on the other hand, there definitely have been the occasional on site beers and food purchases and merch purchases for gifts and stuff, which I would not have spent money on had I bought a lift ticket. I just don't think those purchases add up to the lost income from lift tix.

I do agree in general that skiing is, for most resorts, secondary to services. the whole epic pass mantra is let them ski cheap and then fuck em good on lodging and food/bev

I would guess that you are more in the minority though on that. I would think that most (even if they pack lunch) end up spending something while onsite.... food / drink items to supplement the packed lunches.. hot cocoas etc etc. More will most likely just buy lunch at the resort, along with other items needed in the shop when their kids forgot their neck gators / mittens etc etc.

 

[Jully]

I mean, yes, and no. there are a ton of days where I do not spend a nickel on site. I am a beer and sandwich in a backpack kind of guy almost always. on the other hand, there definitely have been the occasional on site beers and food purchases and merch purchases for gifts and stuff, which I would not have spent money on had I bought a lift ticket. I just don't think those purchases add up to the lost income from lift tix.

I do agree in general that skiing is, for most resorts, secondary to services. the whole epic pass mantra is let them ski cheap and then fuck em good on lodging and food/bev

Alterra is clearly about driving destination skiers to their resorts too. The list of benefits for the Ikon pass is rather impressive while MAX literally had nothing. MAX was a pass about skiing, Ikon is a pass about accessing different resorts. Different model and will be way more profitable.

Again I'm still potentially getting Ikon because, while it isn't a great deal, it is the best deal (by far) to ski some big names out west and back east all with one pass.

 

[boston_e]

The list of benefits for the Ikon pass is rather impressive while MAX literally had nothing. MAX was a pass about skiing, Ikon is a pass about accessing different resorts. Different model and will be way more profitable.

I'm not sure I follow this logic... The list of resorts is somewhat different, but Max had actually more resorts to access than IKON? Unless you really like the IKON mountains more than the Max Pass mountains how is the list of benefits more impressive than what Max offered? (Unless one of the unlimited resorts on the pass is your "home base" resort?)

 

[KustyTheKlown]

10% retail and food/bev discounts at alterra resorts only (with no hard goods/merch included), some 25% off friends and family tix, and lodging discounts which will surely still be way more expensive than staying at independent lodging options slightly off site. nothing there is so sexy in my opinion.

 

[Jully]

I'm not sure I follow this logic... The list of resorts is somewhat different, but Max had actually more resorts to access than IKON? Unless you really like the IKON mountains more than the Max Pass mountains how is the list of benefits more impressive than what Max offered? (Unless one of the unlimited resorts on the pass is your "home base" resort?)

I meant benefits being non-skiing benefits (what Kusty lists below). Fewer resorts for sure. By accessing different resorts I meant staying at and vacationing at the different resorts, as opposed to strictly skiing at them (and staying in a $55 motel the night before). I much prefer the MAX model as I brown bag and stay with friends/family/day trip, but vertical integration is the name of the game these days for profitable ski companies.

10% retail and food/bev discounts at alterra resorts only (with no hard goods/merch included), some 25% off friends and family tix, and lodging discounts which will surely still be way more expensive than staying at independent lodging options slightly off site. nothing there is so sexy in my opinion.

Nothing sexy, and will be more expensive, but the long list is meant to generate people staying and eating and vacationing at the Alterra resorts. If I bought the Ikon I would hardly use it (maybe f&b/family tickets), but discounts like that I always view as designed to make people say "hey, we get 15% off lodging here, lets stay here" and at least think about spending their money directly at the resort.

 

[ghughes20]

As a Stratton condo owner, and someone that makes 1 (maybe 2) trips out west per year, this is a nobrainer for me. I currently have a Stratton season pass with no blackouts and early access. They toss in some freebies every year - free lift tickets, $100 resort credit, etc. I believe last year I paid $1,300, + approx $650 for my 12 year old son. Assuming I still get early access, I will save money at Stratton and get free lift tickets to a selection of mountains out west. This is a best case scenario for me. Very happy.

-Oh, also, I just came back from Sugarbush with my son for the holiday weekend. (I like to go a little farther for the holiday week to avoid crowds).

 

[KustyTheKlown]

and here you have it folks, your ikon pass target audience - wealthy new jerseyite with children and a second home at Stratton who will go west once or twice and spend a lot of money and not do it in dirtbag style

(no knock on you, you're just clearly representative of the target market)

 

[ghughes20]

But I'm not a dentist!!! ;-).

 

[KustyTheKlown]

lol well played

 

[machski]

Maybe, but as a SR based skier, the base Ikon still has some appeal for me. Especially where Tremblant is unlimited/no black outs on the base, I could do a NE silver and Ikon base for about the same $ as a NE Gold and Max add on this year. Of the Xmas holiday lines up with off time from work, we could join the zoo at Tremblant to avoid the Ikon and Silver blackouts. The balance of the other blackouts (beside MLK, again Tremblant) we don't usually ski on anyway. We'll see. Will depend if we want to go west again end of April (Mammoth on Ikon vs Bachelor on Max). Otherwise, a Gold NE with western Boyne benefits back in play well probably be better.

Sent from my XT1650 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[sankaty]

Lame response from Killington regararding the Ikon pass:
http://www.killington.com/site/cult...solimano/from-the-top-killington-and-the-ikon

I still don't get why Pico isn't included. Their line is "While Pico Mountain offers an amazing big mountain skiing/riding experience, it does not align with the other destinations included on the Ikon Pass."

What does that mean? Will Alterra not accept Pico on the pass?

I have no way of knowing the business forces that made that resulted in the Ikon disaster. It may be that Killington would have been very happy to continue with a MAX type arrangement, but the other mountains would not cooperate. It would go a long way in placating me if places such as Killington made some statement along the lines of "We regret that the new pass options will result in a large price increase for some of our customers, but due to the changing nature of the ski industry, this is the best multi-mountain option that we can currently offer, and we are very excited about the product."

Instead, the subtext of all the announcements is that the Ikon is great, and they don't understand why some people are upset.

Do people think that Okemo will join one of the other consortia? Maybe the Mountain Collective? Other than Jay, I think they are the only major VT mountain not on a multi-region pass.

 

[Zermatt]

Lame response from Killington regararding the Ikon pass:
http://www.killington.com/site/cult...solimano/from-the-top-killington-and-the-ikon

I still don't get why Pico isn't included. Their line is "While Pico Mountain offers an amazing big mountain skiing/riding experience, it does not align with the other destinations included on the Ikon Pass."

What does that mean? Will Alterra not accept Pico on the pass?

I have no way of knowing the business forces that made that resulted in the Ikon disaster. It may be that Killington would have been very happy to continue with a MAX type arrangement, but the other mountains would not cooperate. It would go a long way in placating me if places such as Killington made some statement along the lines of "We regret that the new pass options will result in a large price increase for some of our customers, but due to the changing nature of the ski industry, this is the best multi-mountain option that we can currently offer, and we are very excited about the product."

Instead, the subtext of all the announcements is that the Ikon is great, and they don't understand why some people are upset.

Do people think that Okemo will join one of the other consortia? Maybe the Mountain Collective? Other than Jay, I think they are the only major VT mountain not on a multi-region pass.

Align like ski areas in Ontario? Give me a break.

Does anyone have a definitive answer regarding Pico? Everyone assumes Ikon will be valid but nobody has an answer with certainty.

 

[urungus]

Do people think that Okemo will join one of the other consortia? Maybe the Mountain Collective? Other than Jay, I think they are the only major VT mountain not on a multi-region pass.

Is Smuggs aligned with a multi-region pass ?

 

[Zermatt]

The ski areas are saying good riddance to the MAX Pass. Bringing in hoards of skiers that didn't spend any money at their mountains then having to split the measly $650ish between multiple resorts. Get a grip, if you aren't spending money at a ski area they don't want your business.

At least with a regular season pass the ski area might have very little revenue per day if you are a heavy user....but they get to keep 100% of the revenue at the beginning of the season. With MAX you have to share it and I assume you don't get paid up front.