Japan Earthquake and Tsunami

[Puck it]

I was thinking about Seabrook. I would say it would be pretty high up on the Tsunami risk list.

Atlantic is less prone to tsunamis but can happen. The main reason is there are no subduction zone faults in the basin except for in the east side of the Caribbean island chain and off od South America. These are small zone compared to the Pacific. Submarine landslides caused by earthquakes are another source but rare also.

If one does occurred the consequences would be bad due to the population along the eastern seaboard.

 

[Puck it]

There are four reactors in the main section of the facility and the other two are adjacent.

Reactors 5-6 are on the far right side of the pic.

And 4 at the other Fukushima Daini facilty and 2 at the Onagawa, all of these are troublesome too.

Also just found that 7 and 8 were preparing for construction at this site too.

 

[deadheadskier]

I was thinking about Seabrook. I would say it would be pretty high up on the Tsunami risk list.

absolutely

There's really nothing in terms of barrier islands off the coast of NH to slow down a tsunami. Since the weekend I've thought quite a bit about what the situation would be like here should we ever experience something like what's going on in Japan.

 

[deadheadskier]

Atlantic is less prone to tsunamis but can happen. The main reason is there are no subduction zone faults in the basin except for in the east side of the Caribbean island chain and off od South America. These are small zone compared to the Pacific. Submarine landslides caused by earthquakes are another source but rare also.

If one does occurred the consequences would be bad due to the population along the eastern seaboard.

Usually the TV shows I see on potential East Coast Tsunamis talk of large landslides off of the Elusian Islands or North Aftrica. It's almost always on a science channel catostrophe marathon followed by stuff like Yellowstone Super Volcano.

 

[Puck it]

Usually the TV shows I see on potential East Coast Tsunamis talk of large landslides off of the Elusian Islands or North Aftrica. It's almost always on a science channel catostrophe marathon followed by stuff like Yellowstone Super Volcano.

Where do you mean by Elusian Islands?

The article below talks about that potential off the Canary Islands
N.E. is not immune, scientists warn

By Beth Daley, Globe Staff | December 28, 2004
Three hours after an offshore earthquake shook Canada in 1929, three giant ocean surges hurtled onto Newfoundland's coast at 78 miles per hour. Twenty-nine people were killed by the estimated 20-foot waves, and entire salt cod-fishing villages were dismantled as pulses from the tsunami reverberated as far away as Portugal.
Today, the Burin Peninsula disaster serves as a poignant reminder that eastern North America is not immune to the devastating force of a tsunami. Fearsome ocean surges of the kind that killed thousands in Asia this week are far more common in the Pacific, but they have the potential to cause widespread devastation along New England's coast.
''Just because they don't happen [that often] doesn't mean there is no risk or hazard to the New England coast," said Klaus Jacob, senior scientist at Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in New York. There are no records of a tsunami hitting New England's coast during modern times, and Jacob estimates that a tsunami of the strength that hit in 1929 has lower than a 1-in-1,000 chance of occurring in eastern North America in any given year. ''Still, it can happen virtually anywhere along the North America coast," he said.
Because of the low probability, eastern North America does not have a system in place like the elaborate network along the Pacific coast that warns when a strong earthquake has the potential to produce tsunamis. Some scientists say that because of careful seismic monitoring, they will probably know when one is coming toward New England, but others say a warning system or public education campaign is needed to warn people to stay away from coastal areas if they feel tremors. In the Indian Ocean, devastating tsunamis are so rare, the last big one before Sunday's was in the 19th century, officials did not establish a warning system.
A tsunami is a series of extraordinarily large ocean waves caused by the sudden displacement of water by earthquakes or landslides on the ocean floor. Usually, the giant waves occur when earthquakes hit above magnitude 7 on the Richter scale, pushing walls of water outward from the epicenter with the speed of a jet plane. In the open, deep ocean, boaters probably wouldn't even notice if they are atop a tsunami. But as the giant wave hits coastal areas, the enormous energy underwater is transferred into the wave crashing on shore.
Scientists aren't exactly sure what causes some earthquakes off eastern North America. While there are hot spots of geological activity in some Caribbean areas and along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge 2,000 miles off New England, the swath of ocean floor is considered a relatively stable place in the North Atlantic plate. Still, earthquakes do occur, and some scientists believe it stems from some unknown stress on the plate or perhaps a response to the release of pressure from the last Ice Age, 10,000 years ago.
''With the exception of a few areas, we don't have the same geology as the Pacific," said Robert Marvinney, Maine state geologist. ''Still, there is no [coastal] place on earth where the risk is zero from a tsunami."
Scientists do know that the 1929 tsunami was triggered by a 7.2 earthquake about 11 miles below the seafloor south of the Burin Peninsula on the south coast of Newfoundland. It was felt as far away as New England and Montreal.
Twelve trans-Atlantic telegraph cables snapped in multiple places. More than 40 villages in Newfoundland were damaged, and the area also suffered the loss of livestock, fishing gear, ships, and 280,000 pounds of salt cod, according to historical reports. Property losses were estimated at more than $20 million in 2004 dollars.
While underwater earthquakes can cause local tsunamis, enormous geological events elsewhere in the world may also send huge waves our way, much as this week's earthquake sent devastating waves 3,000 miles away. One London researcher contends that an unstable chunk of La Palma, a volcanically active island in the Canary Islands, could cause a catastrophic wall of water to hit the US East Coast if it falls into the sea.
''I'd worry a lot more about hurricanes [in New England] than tsunamis," said John Goff, a senior research scientist at the University of Texas.

 

[mondeo]

Is it just me, or are all scientist comments on any potential risk immediately turned into FUD by reporters?

 

[ctenidae]

So, to summarize,
Things have gone from bad to worse to much, much worse, and things may be on their way to really bloody awful.
Stainless steel probably factors in to the reactor design at some level, but it doesn't make a gnat's fart in a hurricane's woth of difference how much stainless steel is in it once the rods start their melting thing.
Japanese design is to store spent rods above the reactors, which seems a bit silly. The US stores on site, but seperated from the reactors, but until recently couldn't recycle rods, which seems a bit silly. The French wear berets, which look a bit silly, but they do recycle their spent rods.

Did I miss anything important?

 

[billski]

Is it just me, or are all scientist comments on any potential risk immediately turned into FUD by reporters?

It's my impression that 3-5 minute sound bites are insuffient to explain such a complex issue while showing pictures of the current carnage. As such, it's the interpretation of the viewers to draw erroneous conclusions in haste. I think it's more or less a result of abbreviated reportage and the short attention span of most viewers.

Why else would these meteorologists be standing alongside Route 95 during a snowstorm? It's certainly not their idea.

Only a few news outlets are providing robust coverage.

 

[Puck it]

So, to summarize,
Things have gone from bad to worse to much, much worse, and things may be on their way to really bloody awful.
Stainless steel probably factors in to the reactor design at some level, but it doesn't make a gnat's fart in a hurricane's woth of difference how much stainless steel is in it once the rods start their melting thing.
Japanese design is to store spent rods above the reactors, which seems a bit silly. The US stores on site, but seperated from the reactors, but until recently couldn't recycle rods, which seems a bit silly. The French wear berets, which look a bit silly, but they do recycle their spent rods.

Did I miss anything important?

You forgot the white flag for the French and this great defense design Maginot Line of the French.

And you wrote stainless you know.

 

[billski]

So, to summarize,
Things have gone from bad to worse to much, much worse, and things may be on their way to really bloody awful.
Stainless steel probably factors in to the reactor design at some level, but it doesn't make a gnat's fart in a hurricane's woth of difference how much stainless steel is in it once the rods start their melting thing.
Japanese design is to store spent rods above the reactors, which seems a bit silly. The US stores on site, but seperated from the reactors, but until recently couldn't recycle rods, which seems a bit silly. The French wear berets, which look a bit silly, but they do recycle their spent rods.

Did I miss anything important?

525: The EU's energy chief Guenther Oettinger has said that in the coming hours "there could be further catastrophic events, which could pose a threat to the lives of people on the island". He told the European Parliament the Fukushima nuclear site was "effectively out of control". "The cooling systems did not work, and as a result we are somewhere between a disaster and a major disaster."
Source: BBC

 

[ctenidae]

we are somewhere between a disaster and a major disaster."
Source: BBC

So, pretty frickin' bad, but not yet really bloody awful.

 

[deadheadskier]

Where do you mean by Elusian Islands?

.

Nevermind

I was thinking of the Azores. The shows suggest they have the potential for massive volcanic eruptions that would cause a landslide similar to Mt. St Helens, resulting in a substantial tsunami to hit the east coast.

 

[2knees]

Biology major/physics minor for a period.

I forgot about Ghidra. That would be, as we say in the business, sub-optimal. Rodan's on vacation this week, so it could get ugly...

Strange combo though

For me
BS - Physics, Math Minor, Concentration in Geology
MS - Physics
Phd - Solid State Physics

Especially since I ended up, 8 years later, with a BSBA in Finance, and then an MBA.
I'm a triple threat- science, numbers, and bullshit. I can do it all.

stroke me, stroke me......

 

[Puck it]

Nevermind

I was thinking of the Azores. The shows suggest they have the potential for massive volcanic eruptions that would cause a landslide similar to Mt. St Helens, resulting in a substantial tsunami to hit the east coast.

I did not know where you meant. And yes to the Azores just like the Canary Islands. These have spread from the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

 

[Puck it]

stroke me, stroke me......

Keep your thoughts to yourself, real bad mental picture.

 

[ctenidae]

stroke me, stroke me......

 

[Glenn]

So, to summarize,
The French wear berets, which look a bit silly, but they do recycle their spent rods.

LOL! Classic!

 

[Puck it]

These workers better be set for life, however short they are. Along with their families.



The Fukushima 50: Not afraid to die

If the Fukushima nuclear plant's crisis is not calmed soon, Japan will need more brave volunteers to battle it

(CBS News) Since the disaster struck in Japan, about 800 workers have been evacuated from the damaged nuclear complex in Fukushima. The radiation danger is that great.
However, CBS News correspondent Jim Axelrod reports that a handful have stayed on the job, risking their lives, to try to save the lives of countless people they don't even know.

Although communication with the workers inside the nuclear plant is nearly impossible, a CBS News consultant spoke to a Japanese official who made contact with one of the 50 inside the control center.

The official said that his friend, one of the Fukushima 50, told him that he was not afraid to die, that that was his job.

Cham Dallas, who led teams responding to the Chernobyl disaster, said that kind of response is not out of the normal for some workers in the nuclear energy sector.

"(In) my experience of people in the action area of nuclear power is much like that," Dallas said.


The 50 are working amid decreasing but still dangerously high levels of radiation.

"The longer they stay the more dangerous it becomes for them," said expert Margaret Harding. "I think it is a testament to their guts for them to say, 'We'll stay and if that means we go, we go.'"

If the contamination threat isn't contained in a few weeks, finding enough workers willing to face the risks could become a crucial challenge.

Dallas said he expects that in that scenario, the Japanese energy authorities may have to find volunteers willing to undergo similar dangers, which will be hard to do, but not impossible.

Keep in mind they'd be volunteering to head into a place so potentially dangerous, that anyone within 20 miles of it was just asked to evacuate.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/15/eveningnews/main20043554.shtml

 

[Puck it]

CNN reporting radiation in the tap water up to 50 miles away....

From the Kyodo news

The impact of the recent development involving the release of radioactive substances continued to widen, with the Fukushima prefecutural government announcing that it had detected a small amount of radioactive substances -- iodine and cesium -- from tap water extracted at 8 a.m. in the city of Fukushima. The substances were not detected in water taken in the afternoon.

Does not sound like it is 50 miles though. Need to look at a map to be sure.

 

[deadheadskier]

you would think that in this days technology, we would have robots of some sort to assist in such dangerous environments