Lowering the Drinking Age??

[thetrailboss]

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=2857747&nav=4QcRVbnU

A Vermont Legislator is proposing that the current drinking age be lowered from 21 to 18. What do you think?

While I think it "philosophically" may work, in reality the problems it aims to solve (binge drinking) will still exist. Already kids start drinking at 15-18 yrs of age, so if it were legal at 18, then that "starting age" would probably go lower, causing more public health problems.

I also think it will put more impaired drivers on the road which will cause more deaths.

So for these and many other reasons, I vote "nay." :wink:

Your thoughts?

 

[hammer]

What thetrailboss said...

Actually, it would be interesting to see inputs on how old each of the people who vote "yes" are. As a person who's been "legal" for 20 years, I'm well past the fascination with alcohol/partying that I had in my college days. :wink:

 

[Vortex]

I grew up in vermont when the drinking age was 18. I think i might have been the last year.
Booze was in high school big time. I think its a hard argument. Don't they sell beer to all service people on base no matter what the age is? I thought my ROTC college room mate told me that. At least that way if they are forced to fight or serve the country they get most of the liberties of age citizens get. The biggest issue was 18-20 year olds driving to Vermont from surrounding states to buy beer and drink in the Bars.
It helped promote drinking and driving. As a 18 year old I wanted to drink as a parent I like the age at 21. I don't have the right answer just more questions.

 

[hammer]

The biggest issue was 18-20 year olds driving to Vermont to buy beer and drink in the Bars. It helped promote drinking and driving.

I remember many years ago that there were similar problems with people going from PA to NJ and back because of the drinking age difference. Maybe that's in part why the feds got involved with tying in highway funding to the drinking age.

 

[Stephen]

In weighing benefits vs. risks, this is a no-brainer.

Instead I think they should allow parents to offer some amount of alcohol to 18-21 year olds with restrictions, ie. no driving, must be at home, 2 drink limit, or some BAC limit, must be with parent, and cannot distribute to non-family members. To me this would promote safe drinking habits as well as "demystify" the culture.

-Stephen

 

[Talisman]

I was in High School in the early '70's in MA when the drinking age was lowered to 18. Yeehaw, party time. It wasn't unusual to go to bar and see half my class mates drinking when I was 15. Hang overs in study hall, eat lunch in a bar and many happy hours in the afternoon. Lots of car crash carnage I seem to recall. It was fun when I was young, but the low drinking age was a bad idea when IDs were easy to fake. CT drivers licenses did not even have pictures until 77 or 78

VT has the issue with kids going to Quebec to drink where the drinking age is 18 or 19.

 

[thetrailboss]

In weighing benefits vs. risks, this is a no-brainer.

Instead I think they should allow parents to offer some amount of alcohol to 18-21 year olds with restrictions, ie. no driving, must be at home, 2 drink limit, or some BAC limit, must be with parent, and cannot distribute to non-family members. To me this would promote safe drinking habits as well as "demystify" the culture.

-Stephen

I can't think of any way to enforce this policy though.

As for ID's, my first Vermont License in the late 1990's had NO PICTURE and it could have been easily duplicated/altered! They handed those out until 2000 or so!

 

[thetrailboss]

VT has the issue with kids going to Quebec to drink where the drinking age is 18 or 19.

It has not been as bad lately...especially with tighter Border checks. There was that bad crash just south of Newport in 1998 which killed 4 teens. Bad deal.

The family did try to sue the state because of the Beaver Dam that existed well off of I-91 that created the pond which the victims drowned in, which is just ridiculous :x

So who voted for the "shut up and give me a drink?" choice? :wink:

 

[SilentCal]

Drinking and Driving is going to happen and there no hardcore evidence that it's always the young that are out there cracking up their cars. A good friend on mine just his car wrecked by a 37 year old woman.

If you want booze and you are underage, trust me you will find a way to get your hands on it. We have a 20 year old daughter and she has a fake ID to get herself what she wants. Do I have a problem with this. No, If your old enough to vote, get drafted, and get married then I think you can make an educated decision about booze. It's the idiots that get trashed and hurt someone that ruin the party for everyone. Tying Highway funds to the drinking age is such an dumb idea. Imagine this could happen
1. you get married at 20 and get busted on your wedding night because you have champagne to toast the night.
2. You are 19 coming home on a six week leave from Iraq and you can watch buddies dying next to you but can get arrested for trying to buy a six pack.
3. Your 18 and you voted for Bush or Kerry and the other guy won. Don't you deserve a beer.

Sometimes laws are just a little whacked

 

[hammer]

3. Your 18 and you voted for Bush or Kerry and the other guy won. Don't you deserve a beer.

Where can you vote for "Bush or Kerry" and have the other guy win? In Florida? :blink:

Sorry...couldn't resist.

 

[Stephen]

3. Your 18 and you voted for Bush or Kerry and the other guy won. Don't you deserve a beer.

Where can you vote for "Bush or Kerry" and have the other guy win? In Florida? :blink:

Sorry...couldn't resist.

No, in Ukraine.

 

[riverc0il]

ideally, 18 should be the age for becoming an adult and being free of all restirctions society places on minors. unfortunately, ideals are not always best practiced within the confines of our current social setup. the adolescent years are being stretched out more and more lately and prolonging that "adult but not quite adult" stage for many youths. with that delayed onset of real adulthood comes a delay of real responsibility and more of an edge to party hard. i was there, thank goodness i lived on a college campus six years ago. could get smashed in a dorm room and didn't have to drive, it was safe. the drinking age places restictions and minimizes many issues that could be more dangerous with easier access.

not that people over 21 don't do stupid things. it happens ALL the time. i know when i'm driving home from a club in boston that the statistic is 50% of the people driving are legally drunk. but a smaller percentage of those people over the age of 21 are involved in such risky behaviors than would be a lower age. in an ideal society, no problem. there is no problem over in europe for example in which they have ideal conditions for drinking at nearly any age. but there's such a big to do in the states regarding likker that restrictions need to be placed on it's consumption.

then again, it could very well be argued that the restrictions are the cause of the likker problems in the first place. what came first? discuss

 

[Max]

I don't think age has much to do with alcohol and stupidity. Maybe the question should be "Do you favor raising the minimum drinking age to 97?"

 

[Charlie Schuessler]

Reading the DWI convictions in the newspaper reveals that most convictions are people over the age of 25...many of which are in their 30's & 40's...

Leaving the age limit at 21 makes it more difficult for young adults (using the tobacco industry euphemism for under-aged persons) to obtain alcohol products.

However I'm not against 18-21 year old persons from enjoying a drink(s) in a controlled environment such as a family event in the privacy of a homestead...

 

[smitty77]

I don't think age has much to do with alcohol and stupidity."

I agree. The irresponsible behavior is still there three years later at the age of 21. As riverc0il mentioned, go to a night club and watch how many people get behind the wheel totally shitfaced. They know the consequences, yet just don't care.

The argument about "restricting access" to minors is bogus. If you want it, you can get it, and you don't have to jump through hoops to do it. The were many kids in high school (10 or 11 years ago) that drank heavily at parties on a weekly basis. A small group of students referenced a party dubbed Booza-Palooza in their yearbook entries, which are usually submitted the beginning of the senior year. The drinking problem with minors is very real yet everyone ignores it, hoping it will go away.

 

[HardyMachia]

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=2857747&nav=4QcRVbnU
A Vermont Legislator is proposing that the current drinking age be lowered from 21 to 18. What do you think?

Definitely. Lower it to 18 - we wouldn't discriminate against minorities for purchasing alcohol, and we should not discriminate against 18-,19-,and 20-year-old adults. You are considered responsible enough to drive a tank in Iraq, but not have a champagne toast at your own wedding?

But, lowering the drinking age to 18 is not enough. We must allow parents to teach their teenagers responsible and moderate alcohol consumption in restaurants and pubs. They have far fewer problems in countries like Germany, France, and Itaty. Currently, parents in Vermont face up to two years in jail and a $2000 fine.

While I think it "philosophically" may work, in reality the problems it aims to solve (binge drinking) will still exist. Already kids start drinking at 15-18 yrs of age, so if it were legal at 18, then that "starting age" would probably go lower, causing more public health problems.

Look at the statistics and surveys from the 1950s to present. Teenagers (13,14,15) continue to drink at the same rates as they have always done. They start to experiment with what they see adults doing. Adults drink, so teenagers start drinking. We can't change that no matter if the drinking age is 18, 21, or completely prohibited (1920s). What we can affect is how teenagers treat alcohol. Do we want them unsupervised in the woods drinking cheap booze, or do we teach them to respect alcohol and drink in moderation.

The greatest affect on teenage drinking is the amount of adult drinking. As adults drink less, teens drink less, as adults drink more, teens drink more. It isn't a problem with the amount people drink. In France they'll have a couple drinks a night. Science has shown that a glass of wine a day has health benefits (as well as dark chocolate (yumm).

I also think it will put more impaired drivers on the road which will cause more deaths.

So for these and many other reasons, I vote "nay." :wink:

Your thoughts?

Teens are already drinking. Changing the legal drinking age will not dramatically increase the number of teenage drinkers.

As far as statistics and Vermont goes, lowering the drinking age might cause 0.5 more deaths per year. This is assuming that conditions where exactly the same as 1984/86, and they aren't. Cars are safer, DUI less socially acceptable (<-- this is one of the biggest factors)

If you want to help lower the drinking age in Vermont, then join the Vermont Chatper of the National Youth Rights Association - We oppose laws based on age discrimination. There is a petition here to: http://vt.youthrights.org

Hardy Machia
http://vt.youthrights.org

 

[BeanoNYC]

I honestly don't know! I see it works well in Europe. I spend a lot of time visiting my wife's family in Norway and it's 18 for Beer/Wine, 21 for liquor. As a High School Teacher I know the kids drink way before 21 anyway and cringe. It is something that needs to be put into practice before we can see the inplications.

 

[lotr]

:angry: That is so dumb! You can get married, but what will you drink as u link arms with yur bride/groom??? Sprite?? oh yeah, i want to remember drinking SPRITE at my wedding, if i get married at 18, 19, or 20! :beer: Cheers baby!

 

[madman]

I grew up when the drinking age was 18 I wish I had the money and time I wasted drinking between 18 + 21. As a parent + grown up partier [ you probably wouldnt beleve my stories!]I see nothing wrong with waiting till 21. Of course you will party whenever you can but to be given free rein is not so great. I lost one good friend , another lost a leg ,another is in a wheel chair.all between 18 + 21. My son is 24 and I never stopped him from having a drink at home [18 -21 ] however once he drank he stayed home. He is very responsable and learned how to handle himself. Also LOTR dont be in any rush to get married SKI< HIKE <TRAVEL <HAVE FUN you only go round once in life MAKE THE MOST OF IT :beer:

 

[cbcbd]

After 18 many teens will be going off to college, where they will be drinking whether it is allowed or not. There are plenty of ways of getting around that in college (fake ids, older friends who go on booze runs, that party down the hall, frat parties).

It is just a waste of time to try to stop kids from drinking at that age if they really want to.

IMO, if you're going to binge drink and get your alcohol fix, might as well do it while you're in college and most times can just stumble back to your dorm.