Maine reimposes quarantine, COVID-19 test requirements on visitors from Massachusetts

[drjeff]

Not coming from the financial angle. I was referring to the supposedly all consuming need to protect people from COVID that Cuomo, Baker et al always preach.

Yeah, I'll be skiing in NY only this season. And I'll bet many from outside NY in those contiguous states will come to NY too, especially if it snows. So NY will have it's own population of skiers AND outsiders from those contiguous states. But no relief valve whereby NY skiers can go to adjoining states to ski. A one way street.

I stand by my original comment...Cuomo is an idiot.

Here's the thing, where the answers always seem to be contact tracing related, that drive me crazy!

Let's say it's 200 miles from your house in New York to Whiteface. And It's 175 miles from your house in New York to KIllington. Both Whiteface and Killington are in relatively low COVID incidence areas, with not a lot of local healthcare facility beds. Both mountains will have a data point of you being there from your reservations. Yet somehow with the logic that many a Governor is applying makes it seem like "Whiteface Covid" is somehow less virulent to the surrounding community near your home than "Killington Covid" would be and that the Covid by your home is less virulent in the Whiteface area than it would be in the Killington area......

You could make the point back in late Winter/early Spring when the Covid infection regions were relatively small and not nearly as widespread across the country as they are now that travel restrictions made sense, now though, not so much. Now it's either got to be about truly locking down entire communities for a period of time (not in favor of that) or being aware, and very on top of society as a whole using the set spread mitigation protocols (masks, hand sanitation, social distancing, etc.)

And if there is a potential exposure. the mountain has your info for possible contact tracing. If it happened in say a gas station near Killington or Whiteface, would that gas station necessarily have your data for contact tracing info? Or if it was based of credit card use, would it really matter if the Dept of Public Health had to notify you across state lines 175 miles from Killington or within State lines 200 miles from Whiteface?

 

[JimG.]

Here's the thing, where the answers always seem to be contact tracing related, that drive me crazy!

Let's say it's 200 miles from your house in New York to Whiteface. And It's 175 miles from your house in New York to KIllington. Both Whiteface and Killington are in relatively low COVID incidence areas, with not a lot of local healthcare facility beds. Both mountains will have a data point of you being there from your reservations. Yet somehow with the logic that many a Governor is applying makes it seem like "Whiteface Covid" is somehow less virulent to the surrounding community near your home than "Killington Covid" would be and that the Covid by your home is less virulent in the Whiteface area than it would be in the Killington area......

You could make the point back in late Winter/early Spring when the Covid infection regions were relatively small and not nearly as widespread across the country as they are now that travel restrictions made sense, now though, not so much. Now it's either got to be about truly locking down entire communities for a period of time (not in favor of that) or being aware, and very on top of society as a whole using the set spread mitigation protocols (masks, hand sanitation, social distancing, etc.)

And if there is a potential exposure. the mountain has your info for possible contact tracing. If it happened in say a gas station near Killington or Whiteface, would that gas station necessarily have your data for contact tracing info? Or if it was based of credit card use, would it really matter if the Dept of Public Health had to notify you across state lines 175 miles from Killington or within State lines 200 miles from Whiteface?

That's great...true science.

Cuomo is STILL an idiot.

 

[curlyfuzzie]

Here's the thing, where the answers always seem to be contact tracing related, that drive me crazy!

Let's say it's 200 miles from your house in New York to Whiteface. And It's 175 miles from your house in New York to KIllington. Both Whiteface and Killington are in relatively low COVID incidence areas, with not a lot of local healthcare facility beds. Both mountains will have a data point of you being there from your reservations. Yet somehow with the logic that many a Governor is applying makes it seem like "Whiteface Covid" is somehow less virulent to the surrounding community near your home than "Killington Covid" would be and that the Covid by your home is less virulent in the Whiteface area than it would be in the Killington area......

You could make the point back in late Winter/early Spring when the Covid infection regions were relatively small and not nearly as widespread across the country as they are now that travel restrictions made sense, now though, not so much. Now it's either got to be about truly locking down entire communities for a period of time (not in favor of that) or being aware, and very on top of society as a whole using the set spread mitigation protocols (masks, hand sanitation, social distancing, etc.)

And if there is a potential exposure. the mountain has your info for possible contact tracing. If it happened in say a gas station near Killington or Whiteface, would that gas station necessarily have your data for contact tracing info? Or if it was based of credit card use, would it really matter if the Dept of Public Health had to notify you across state lines 175 miles from Killington or within State lines 200 miles from Whiteface?

See, that's the stupidity of the thing. I can go ski at Whiteface, which is 120 miles and two hours away, and that's ok. Or, I can go to Jiminy Peak, which is 30 miles and 45 minutes away, and I'm supposed to quarantine because of a state border. Stupid. Also, since we've decided not to rent out our suite in the Country Inn this season, I will have no reason to go into the lodge, or any other indoor area except my own place. If I went to Whiteface, I'd be much more likely to come in contact with the bug.
Unfortunately, the bottom line seems to be if this bug is going to get under control, EVERYTHING needs to be shut down (which can't/won't happen), or we finally get a widely distributed vaccine.

 

[abc]

I'm supposed to quarantine because of a state border.

Unfortunately, that's a limitation that geography and government don't always line up.

Tell that to people living next to the Canadian border. They can't go 30 miles to cross a NATIONAL BORDER, not even with a quarantine. But they can go 300 miles within their own state/province. Canadians visiting their second home in VT/NY had to fly into Boston and then drive up to the border...

But there's nothing "stupid" about it. It's how things been working in most other areas. I used to live only an hr from the Canadian border so cross the border whenever I feel like it. But some of my friends can't go with me because they're not US citizen or don't have a green card.

Within the US, STATES are the next independent entity that can impose different laws. So naturally, that's where differences show up. People do take advantage of the differences. Why do you think there're liquor shops in all the NH rest stops bordering other states? Some people even choose to live on one side of the state lines over the other side too!

 

[curlyfuzzie]

I need to find a fish-sitter so I can move to MA for the ski season. I'm working remotely anyway (even if I wasn't, commuters are exempt from the quarantine rules). Then I can ski every day during my lunch break.

 

[Keelhauled]

They were using cell phones to track social distancing going all the way back to march. Remember those maps early on that were showing how each state was following the guidelines? It's really not that hard to do although there are potential legal problems with tracking peoples movements with no warrant or probable cause, maybe part of the reason you dont see this talked about more even though its already going on

Location tracking is a huge data industry already, I bet they just bought access to some advertiser's database to see trends.

 

[Dickc]

Here's the thing, where the answers always seem to be contact tracing related, that drive me crazy!

Let's say it's 200 miles from your house in New York to Whiteface. And It's 175 miles from your house in New York to KIllington. Both Whiteface and Killington are in relatively low COVID incidence areas, with not a lot of local healthcare facility beds. Both mountains will have a data point of you being there from your reservations. Yet somehow with the logic that many a Governor is applying makes it seem like "Whiteface Covid" is somehow less virulent to the surrounding community near your home than "Killington Covid" would be and that the Covid by your home is less virulent in the Whiteface area than it would be in the Killington area......

You could make the point back in late Winter/early Spring when the Covid infection regions were relatively small and not nearly as widespread across the country as they are now that travel restrictions made sense, now though, not so much. Now it's either got to be about truly locking down entire communities for a period of time (not in favor of that) or being aware, and very on top of society as a whole using the set spread mitigation protocols (masks, hand sanitation, social distancing, etc.)

And if there is a potential exposure. the mountain has your info for possible contact tracing. If it happened in say a gas station near Killington or Whiteface, would that gas station necessarily have your data for contact tracing info? Or if it was based of credit card use, would it really matter if the Dept of Public Health had to notify you across state lines 175 miles from Killington or within State lines 200 miles from Whiteface?

Let me give a few more examples of the STUPIDITY. I live in Peabody, Mass. I am 3/4 of a mile from the Lynn border, and only a dozen or so miles from Chelsea, Mass. Those two municipalities have a significantly higher COVID rate than any of the surrounding states. I can hop in my truck and go to either, drive home and have no need to quarantine, and no reason to get a test. I can go about my life as I please. If I DARE leave the state, they will insist I quarantine/and or prove negativity with a test. Show me where out of state I would be in more danger than the rates in Lynn and Chelsea. i DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU.

 

[John9]

PA is sayin similar non sense with NJ. I do not belive any state restrictions against other states are legal or enforceable.

Only the federal government can do this, the interstate commerce clause of the Constitution. Any citizen of the USA is free to travel to any state. I hope another state arrests someone, one lawsuit will end all this. States simply do not have this power over each other, or else we would be 50 countries.

 

[JimG.]

PA is sayin similar non sense with NJ. I do not belive any state restrictions against other states are legal or enforceable.

Only the federal government can do this, the interstate commerce clause of the Constitution. Any citizen of the USA is free to travel to any state. I hope another state arrests someone, one lawsuit will end all this. States simply do not have this power over each other, or else we would be 50 countries.

This.

All of this is nonsense.

 

[TeleBoomer]

I am such an optimist that I fully booked a trip to Wyoming to see our family and ski at JHMR / GT. I bought a Mountain Collective Pass, booked flights for the four of us and rented a condo in Driggs. We received a call last night from my in-laws begging us not to come out. The infection rate in Teton County is almost 60% and the local hospital is over capacity, as is in ID, and Utah will not take any interstate patients. Residents of WY and ID have refused to wear a mask since the outbreak begin, and now they’ve killed the golden goose. It’s really not that you can’t stay safe if you hermit and wear a mask, it’s that if you or your family is injured, they can’t get good care. What all ski areas are not telling us is whether there will be adequate care if you have an injury.

 

[Zermatt]

I am such an optimist that I fully booked a trip to Wyoming to see our family and ski at JHMR / GT. I bought a Mountain Collective Pass, booked flights for the four of us and rented a condo in Driggs. We received a call last night from my in-laws begging us not to come out. The infection rate in Teton County is almost 60% and the local hospital is over capacity, as is in ID, and Utah will not take any interstate patients. Residents of WY and ID have refused to wear a mask since the outbreak begin, and now they’ve killed the golden goose. It’s really not that you can’t stay safe if you hermit and wear a mask, it’s that if you or your family is injured, they can’t get good care. What all ski areas are not telling us is whether there will be adequate care if you have an injury.

Are these verified facts? Have you looked at the data? WY data from the state webpage doesn't give me this impression.

The hell scenes depicted by the outside media are often far different from reality on the ground. Like "hospitals at capacity" is a good one, yet maybe hospitals are always at capacity this time of year....

 

[TeleBoomer]

Are these verified facts? Have you looked at the data? WY data from the state webpage doesn't give me this impression.

The hell scenes depicted by the outside media are often far different from reality on the ground. Like "hospitals at capacity" is a good one, yet maybe hospitals are always at capacity this time of year....

It comes directly from my family in Wilson, WY. They’ve been out there for 50 years and I trust their unvarnished information. They’re not alarmists by any stretch. My cousin is an RN at St. John’s Hosptial and said that more than 50 hospital staff are out due to quarantine and they beds are lining the small ER. There are no beds available and based on the fact that nobody is complying with COVID Protocol, the post Thanksgiving surge is expected to be overwhelming. I consider myself a displaced Teton County local and spend a lot of time there, and I’m not going near the place this year. First time in 28 years I’m not skiing out there. The County Commission is now considering three week shutdown to try to flatten the curve before the XMas rush.

Town, county look to health experts for direction as hospital initiates surge capacity protocols

Facing a dire situation at St. John’s Health and spiking COVID-19 cases, town and county officials didn’t have an immediate response Tuesday and instead tasked local health officials with devising

www.jhnewsandguide.com

 

[TeleBoomer]

PA is sayin similar non sense with NJ. I do not belive any state restrictions against other states are legal or enforceable.

Only the federal government can do this, the interstate commerce clause of the Constitution. Any citizen of the USA is free to travel to any state. I hope another state arrests someone, one lawsuit will end all this. States simply do not have this power over each other, or else we would be 50 countries.

Unless while under disaster or emergency declaration. State’s close borders all the time during hurricanes to reduce in influx into the effected area.

 

[Ice Queen]

If you travel over the border frequently, the Covid test-out requirement is onerous. Here in NY, Andy Cuomo says the state is doing "more testing than anyone"... Maybe so, but getting notified of the results can sometimes take up to 10 days, depending on where and when you get the test. I know this because I work with people who have been on the NYS Department of Health Covid "hotline". Proving a negative test within 72 hours would be impossible if you don't know the result of your test for ten days - or else you still would have to quarantine until you find out the results of your test, but by then the 72 hour time frame has been exceeded. Some places in my area will not test asymptomatic people, which makes taking a test just because the gubmint says so not quite so simple, and quarantining for 14 days when you are not sick, and have not come in contact with someone who's tested positive is IMHO, extreme.

Wow, that sucks. Rhode Island claims to be testing more than any New England state, not sure how it stacks up against NY though. I've been able to get tested twice for the purpose of travel, and they rush results when you state that travel is the reason for your test. Once back in July, and again in September, I've been able to get tested to travel to Maine and Vermont with no problem, and got results back in less than 48 hours. Maybe you write Cuomo and ask him why Gina Raimondo seems to being doing so much better than him, see if that lights a fire under his arse.

 

[TeleBoomer]

Wow, that sucks. Rhode Island claims to be testing more than any New England state, not sure how it stacks up against NY though. I've been able to get tested twice for the purpose of travel, and they rush results when you state that travel is the reason for your test. Once back in July, and again in September, I've been able to get tested to travel to Maine and Vermont with no problem, and got results back in less than 48 hours. Maybe you write Cuomo and ask him why Gina Raimondo seems to being doing so much better than him, see if that lights a fire under his arse.

We can parse the regional COVID protocols till the rapture comes and it will all add up to a very challenging and almost non-existing ski season. Just sucks,...

 

[John9]

I might be tempted to get the vaccine, just to be free from all this.but that will be for next season.

 

[Dickc]

PA is sayin similar non sense with NJ. I do not belive any state restrictions against other states are legal or enforceable.

Only the federal government can do this, the interstate commerce clause of the Constitution. Any citizen of the USA is free to travel to any state. I hope another state arrests someone, one lawsuit will end all this. States simply do not have this power over each other, or else we would be 50 countries.

From the US Constitution:

Article. IV.​

Section. 2.​

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

 

[Zermatt]

From the US Constitution:

Article. IV.​

Section. 2.​

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

Too bad you're wrong, and I wish you weren't.

This clause only prevents discrimination of residents vs non residents. No states are doing that. A VT resident returning to VT has to follow the same rules as an out of state resident.

Mic dropped.

 

[Dickc]

Too bad you're wrong, and I wish you weren't.

This clause only prevents discrimination of residents vs non residents. No states are doing that. A VT resident returning to VT has to follow the same rules as an out of state resident.

Mic dropped.

I can travel within the State of Mass without restriction. No quarantine, no testing. I live less than a mile from Lynn, Mass one of the hottest spots in Mass. Yet if I DARE got to NH, ME, or VT and home I have to quarantine? I think a judge would look VERY closely at this.

 

[John9]

I can travel within the State of Mass without restriction. No quarantine, no testing. I live less than a mile from Lynn, Mass one of the hottest spots in Mass. Yet if I DARE got to NH, ME, or VT and home I have to quarantine? I think a judge would look VERY closely at this.

I would argue that someone returning to say VT who is a resident has a home to quarantine in. A visitor does not, and would have to pay for lodging for an extra 2 weeks, forcing them to spend extra money, essentially a tax on out of state visitors. States cannot set entry requirements that is essentially charging a fee to non residents. I believe this is unconstitutional, and these state travel restrictions can be thrown out as a violation of the interstate commerce clause. This is discrimination against non residents.