most difficult trail in the east

[bdfreetuna]

I'm still think Paradise wins I haven't skied the slides but I have seen pictures and it doesn't look as gnarly as this..

The first photo is a straight on shot, no distortion or anything.. you can see it's clearly very steep in the lower half. I know of nothing steeper that is a marked trail in the East. Also Paradise is more of a "zone" and if you go to skiers left of the main chutes you can find terrain that is even more challenging/steep/narrow.

Face/Tuckerman Chutes at Jay may be as steep but they are very short runs in comparison and the steep section is even shorter. Red Line the small cliffs can basically be skied around if you wanted to on the edge of the trail and otherwise the trail isn't extremely difficult just a normal steep liftline mogul run. Likewise Madonna Liftline only really has 1 steep area, which is very steep, but Freefall and Black Hole are actually steeper just not under the lift so you can suck without worrying.. but overall I think Paradise is the least forgiving "trail" for a skier to find themselves in if they are not truly a high advanced/ expert skier.

Julio Woods at Killington approach Paradise but only the very bottom section where it drops into Flume.

The unnamed woods to the skiers left of the Red Line upper section are as hard as Paradise but that's not official terrain. Same as Jays Ridge.

 

[riverc0il]

Slide 1 approaches 45 degrees for quite a way. However that still falls short of a decent section of lower Ovation at K so it's not like it's way steeper than anything else out there.

Slide 1 isn't any where near 45*. Not even close.

 

[riverc0il]

Paradise in not the steepest trail in the east. I would imagine not even top three if you broke out a protractor. But steepness and difficulty are two different things. It has to be steep to be difficult but it doesn't have to be difficult to be steep. Paradise is more difficult than steep, the first pitch at the waterfall not withstanding (but the pitch relents quickly after that first pitch).

The problem with measuring steepness is how much vert to quantify. If you just calculate rise and run top to bottom, that doesn't tell the whole picture because it could start really steep and end mellow (most runs do).

 

[MadMadWorld]

Slide 1 isn't any where near 45*. Not even close.

To claim anything in the east is 45 degree is ludicrous. If anyone has skied Tucks Headwall they would understand. Magician is very steep at the top but I would say it's in the 35-37 degree range for a few hundred feet

 

[MadMadWorld]

I'm still think Paradise wins I haven't skied the slides but I have seen pictures and it doesn't look as gnarly as this..

The first photo is a straight on shot, no distortion or anything.. you can see it's clearly very steep in the lower half. I know of nothing steeper that is a marked trail in the East. Also Paradise is more of a "zone" and if you go to skiers left of the main chutes you can find terrain that is even more challenging/steep/narrow.

Face/Tuckerman Chutes at Jay may be as steep but they are very short runs in comparison and the steep section is even shorter. Red Line the small cliffs can basically be skied around if you wanted to on the edge of the trail and otherwise the trail isn't extremely difficult just a normal steep liftline mogul run. Likewise Madonna Liftline only really has 1 steep area, which is very steep, but Freefall and Black Hole are actually steeper just not under the lift so you can suck without worrying.. but overall I think Paradise is the least forgiving "trail" for a skier to find themselves in if they are not truly a high advanced/ expert skier.

Julio Woods at Killington approach Paradise but only the very bottom section where it drops into Flume.

The unnamed woods to the skiers left of the Red Line upper section are as hard as Paradise but that's not official terrain. Same as Jays Ridge.

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If I am with a skier that is not advanced and had to choose, I would much rather take them down Paradise then Lift Line, Black Hole @ Smuggs and Face Chutes @ Jay. All are very technical and require mandatory air (some lines on Face do not require air) on steep sections with not a lot of room to make mistakes. If you stay on skiers right it is actually pretty tame and the first drop is avoidable. There are places in Black Hole and Lift Line where you HAVE to point em.

 

[BenedictGomez]

This chart is incomplete because it doesnt feature MRG or Whiteface and some others, but if you take it for gospel there are very few trails in general that exceed 35 degrees.

http://www.skiernet.com/angle-of-ski-trails.html

 

[gladerider]

I have skied the Slides quite a few times and have done lots of backcountry tours through the High Peak slides. Again, I stand by my statement and would be happy to show you around.

i will take you up on that offer. in fact, i will be up there next weekend for the long weekend and the president's day long weekend as well. if you come that way, give me a pm. i can always learn from people with experience. i got a msg from WF that the slides are open now. i haven't seen it open in january and this is the first i know of. so if it is still open next weekend, i will be there.
my memory may be failing me, but the last time i was there the waterfall in slides 1 was massive.

 

[gladerider]

Does anyone know if there are any skiable lines from the ridge on Whiteface? Never heard of anyone skiing but always thought in a good year it could be possible. Looks similar to Jay's ridge with some serious cliff bands.

i met a guy splitboarding last year and i asked him if there is a hiking trail via the ridge line. he said that there is, but it dishes you out the other side of mountain from the resort so you would have to either hike back up or go around to come back to the starting point.

 

[gladerider]

Slide 1 is pretty mellow as far as pitch goes. There are some frozen waterfall and ice issues, maybe a few small drops depending on your line. The interesting aspect with the Slides is that they don't get opened when conditions are bad. So it is really hard to compare the Slides to anything else because you are generally skiing them (if you can get there when they are open to ski them) in pretty good condition.

i agree. i think the beginning part of slides 1 is mellow. i think the pitch is very similar to the upper skyward? (trail left of the summit chair as you go up). it is the waterfall and the rock ledges that gets me. the thing is, when they get dumped they close it off for avi dangers and very rarely they open it. by the time march comes around and they open it there may not be much cover and those ledges are bare. it's a crapshoot. i guess some people get lucky and some people don't.

 

[jrmagic]

You'll have to back up that 45* claim with some proof. That is approaching Tuckerman Headwall steepness (50ish depending on the year). Magician is steep but not 45* for 300 yards steep. The hardest part of Magician is escaping without base damage. Red Line is overall the more challenging trail for its length and consistency.

I agree Magician is easier than red by a lot albeit Magician is definitely steeper. Unfortunately I'd need a surveyor to prove it for real. Next time I ski it I will at least try to use the how steep app in some spots to get some sort of basic data as unscientific as that will be.

 

[bdfreetuna]

Ok I screwed up the grade > degrees conversion.. and now I can't find that site which had the ski trail angles (not Skiernet page.. this one was a lot more detailed and had all states in the Northeast). I linked it somewhere in one of these threads.

That said Paradise still comes in #1 pucker factor for me. I've skied 90% of what everyone else is saying here and dropping some small/medium cliffs doesn't really phase me if it's not an ice rink. Paradise is pretty relentless in the middle section and having narrow lines to choose between trees adds to the challenge.

If we are talking trails as in not glade/woods trails Paradise could be excluded. But steep + woods is harder than just steep.

 

[Newpylong]

This chart is incomplete because it doesnt feature MRG or Whiteface and some others, but if you take it for gospel there are very few trails in general that exceed 35 degrees.

http://www.skiernet.com/angle-of-ski-trails.html

In general I think that is a great chart.

 

[MadMadWorld]

i will take you up on that offer. in fact, i will be up there next weekend for the long weekend and the president's day long weekend as well. if you come that way, give me a pm. i can always learn from people with experience. i got a msg from WF that the slides are open now. i haven't seen it open in january and this is the first i know of. so if it is still open next weekend, i will be there.
my memory may be failing me, but the last time i was there the waterfall in slides 1 was massive.

Do you have a transceiver? If you are interested shoot me a message. I was thinking about heading out there this weekend if it's still open.

 

[gladerider]

wish i could, but this weekend doesn't work. will be up there next week tho. if your plan changes, let me know. thnx.

 

[fbrissette]

You'll have to back up that 45* claim with some proof. That is approaching Tuckerman Headwall steepness (50ish depending on the year).

Yep. Until you've skied a legit 45+ degrees slope it's hard to comprehend how frickin steep it is.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[riverc0il]

Yep. Until you've skied a legit 45+ degrees slope it's hard to comprehend how frickin steep it is.

It is quite a sight to behold. Skiing that pitch isn't super tough but the first time you come to a stop on a lip in the +45* range, you certainly stop and think "damn, never skied anything even CLOSE to this steep before!"

 

[kingslug]

Little Chute off Baldy Mt is the scariest thing I ever looked down...and then I almost completely lost it when I jumped in...not fun..nope...and it amazes me every time I watch a movie and they are hitting 55 plus degree ones..watching Daron Rahlves straightline them is nuts...

 

[fbrissette]

It is quite a sight to behold. Skiing that pitch isn't super tough but the first time you come to a stop on a lip in the +45* range, you certainly stop and think "damn, never skied anything even CLOSE to this steep before!"

Not that hard in soft snow but still a challenge. One year, we hit the upper snowfields, and by the time we got back, the weather had changed, and the soft snow was refreezing very rapidly. One guy ahead of us missed a turn and fell the entire length of the headwall (1200' vertical) in about 10-15 seconds and was pretty banged up. It was a lot less enjoyable knowing that a fall will likely results in an injury.

 

[bdfreetuna]

Anyone know how steep Hillman's Highway is? Have not skied it or Whiteface Slides but they look similar

Whenever I've hiked up there Hillman's stands out to me as the thing I most want to ski.

Talking about what is labeled #2 on this picture. #3 looks insane, I had no idea people skied that line! I guess that's called the Dutchess. Dodge's Drop (#1) is over 50 degrees.

 

[fbrissette]

Anyone know how steep Hillman's Highway is? Have not skied it or Whiteface Slides but they look similar

Whenever I've hiked up there Hillman's stands out to me as the thing I most want to ski.

Talking about what is labeled #2 on this picture. #3 looks insane, I had no idea people skied that line! I guess that's called the Dutchess. Dodge's Drop (#1) is over 50 degrees.

I would guess that Hillman's highway is in the 35-40 degree range but very sustained. Certainly not as steep as anything in the headwall including the top of the left and right gullies. I hiked to the top of Dodge's drop one year (from Hillman's highway) and I would venture about 50 degrees but sustained for a while, whereas the headwall is only 50 degrees at the very top. Never skied Dodge's drop because it is 'no-mistake' run. You may definitely die if you fall. In the headwall, especially early in the ski season, there are a few lines where if you fall you'll simply slide with little chance of hitting a rock. In all my years at Tuck I've seen only one skier in Dodge's drop.