Mount Snow: Inside Track

[heiusa]

Thank you for the reminder / alert.

 

[prsboogie]

Shameless request, as a third season peaks pass holder I would love to a family pack pass! There are deals for most age groups except for Adults. I understand the thinking that offering reduced price pass to a 20something will increase the number of passes sold and inturn increase Food and Beverage purchases. I'm thinking along the lines of $1900 for a family of 4 with additional kids passes for 300? Just a thought [emoji6]

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[Smellytele]

Shameless request, as a third season peaks pass holder I would love to a family pack pass! There are deals for most age groups except for Adults. I understand the thinking that offering reduced price pass to a 20something will increase the number of passes sold and inturn increase Food and Beverage purchases. I'm thinking along the lines of $1900 for a family of 4 with additional kids passes for 300? Just a thought [emoji6]

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isn't 1900 more than it is now (or before the recent increase) for a family of 4?
I

 

[prsboogie]

isn't 1900 more than it is now (or before the recent increase) for a family of 4?
I

2119 for the Explorer

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[drjeff]

2119 for the Explorer

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Considering that up until 2 seasons ago, that 2 adult and 2 youth explorer passes (the youth used to be $750ish!!) used to run my family over 3000, and that at that time, the only way for people who bought Peak pass products to get unlimited Mount Snow access was to get the explorer, whereas now all of their passes get unlimited access to Mount Snow and their other resorts, and anecdotally at least it sure seems that crowd volume at Mount Snow at least is up noticeably with more people with passes than before, I doubt, and honestly hope that you won't see Peak do something like that, or if they did, go back to where there are limited days at Mount Snow on their passes...

About a month ago when my wife and I bought our Explorers for next season, plus 2 of the $500 dining cards (they get you $600 in food value), we both commented on how we were able to get all 4 passes for the family, plus the 2 food dining cards for less than the 4 passes alone used to cost us. Add in all of the on mountain items we've seen under Peak's ownership, and frankly we feel that we're getting a ton of value at the price point currently...

 

[sull1102]

As a Peak Pass holder for the past three years, admittedly as a 20-something on the Drifter, I've exclusively gone to Mount Snow because of the under 1 hour ride time. I'm honestly not super interested in any other option except maybe Hunter, but as I say that I think about the handful of times I considered driving there and went to Snow instead. If I'm going to go off pass I'll go to Stratton, K, or Jay, maybe Magic. What I would like to see is a return to limit Saturdays for Peak Pass holders, or just a general limit but have a cheaper pass that is only for Mount Snow that you sell to us more local folks.

 

[Smellytele]

As a Peak Pass holder for the past three years, admittedly as a 20-something on the Drifter, I've exclusively gone to Mount Snow because of the under 1 hour ride time. I'm honestly not super interested in any other option except maybe Hunter, but as I say that I think about the handful of times I considered driving there and went to Snow instead. If I'm going to go off pass I'll go to Stratton, K, or Jay, maybe Magic. What I would like to see is a return to limit Saturdays for Peak Pass holders, or just a general limit but have a cheaper pass that is only for Mount Snow that you sell to us more local folks.

I am glad that a lot of peaks pass holders only ski at snow so I can actually get runs in and not stand in line, get a seat at the bar and lodge at Wildcat.

 

[sull1102]

That's always been the case at Wildcat and always will be. Very few are driving that far and past that many other options to ski there. I say this as someone who loves the Cat.

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[Smellytele]

That's always been the case at Wildcat and always will be. Very few are driving that far and past that many other options to ski there. I say this as someone who loves the Cat.

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I have been to Mount Snow twice this year. Once I wish I hadn't in December (way too many people trying to ride the Blue bird), the other was okay a couple of weeks ago (just lapped trails over on the Northside). It is 30 mins closer to me then Wildcat but Wildcat is worth the extra 30 mins.

 

[bdfreetuna]

Well Mount Snow is the closest "major resort" to me, I'm just chiming in to compliment them on the season. The new snowmaking system showed up everyone else early on, so I had another good early season choice. Late season everyone got lucky with snow this year but appreciate Mount Snow being one of those who stayed open. Would like to see the season go another week but I realize it's a gamble every year.

I'll be honest I will probably continue to mostly go elsewhere mid-season (mainly due to the variety-pack passes/cards I use) but the fact that Mount Snow is making a name for themselves early and late season means I'll be up there more often.

 

[xlr8r]

With the new base lodge coming next year to Carinthia, does Mount Snow plan to return a few trails back to not having terrain park features over there. As I would think a lot of people will want to use the new lodge instead of the main base area, but not necessarily ski parks.

 

[sull1102]

With the new base lodge coming next year to Carinthia, does Mount Snow plan to return a few trails back to not having terrain park features over there. As I would think a lot of people will want to use the new lodge instead of the main base area, but not necessarily ski parks.

Would really hope this does not happen as the park trails are very well used almost all season. There really aren't any particular trails that stand as easy to return to regular skiing without crossing a park or really hurting the parks and taking away a big piece.

As the park area, Carinthia contributes WAY more than it would as just another trail pod closed midweek late and early season. Plus reintroducing parks to say Roller Coaster might not go great and would be very tough for the park crew to manage.

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[prsboogie]

Considering that up until 2 seasons ago, that 2 adult and 2 youth explorer passes (the youth used to be $750ish!!) used to run my family over 3000, and that at that time, the only way for people who bought Peak pass products to get unlimited Mount Snow access was to get the explorer, whereas now all of their passes get unlimited access to Mount Snow and their other resorts, and anecdotally at least it sure seems that crowd volume at Mount Snow at least is up noticeably with more people with passes than before, I doubt, and honestly hope that you won't see Peak do something like that, or if they did, go back to where there are limited days at Mount Snow on their passes...

About a month ago when my wife and I bought our Explorers for next season, plus 2 of the $500 dining cards (they get you $600 in food value), we both commented on how we were able to get all 4 passes for the family, plus the 2 food dining cards for less than the 4 passes alone used to cost us. Add in all of the on mountain items we've seen under Peak's ownership, and frankly we feel that we're getting a ton of value at the price point currently...

I am quite aware that it would never happen, the prices are fine. It is more a statement against the reduced price of the other groups. I personally would have never paid near 3k for 4 passes ( honestly couldn't afford to) to ski just Mount Snow, or any resort for that matter. We would likely be at Ragged if prices went up much more than they did, as is I didn't buy a pass for my wife this coming season based on the few number of days she skied this season.

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[mtsnow123]

Would really hope this does not happen as the park trails are very well used almost all season. There really aren't any particular trails that stand as easy to return to regular skiing without crossing a park or really hurting the parks and taking away a big piece.

As the park area, Carinthia contributes WAY more than it would as just another trail pod closed midweek late and early season. Plus reintroducing parks to say Roller Coaster might not go great and would be very tough for the park crew to manage.

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I would second this response. Being a Mount Snow rider since 2004, I have seen the growth of Carinthia parks from the bottom up. Its success has been based upon the ridership that freestyle members of the community bring to it. You can usually hear the typical responses from park riders complaining about people cutting across jumps or drop ins who do not plan on hitting a feature. If they planned on returning a trail to non-parks, I would assume a greater issue with this and assuming further issues, worst case: increased injury. Carinthia is a well known destination across the East coast, and even U.S. With knowledge there is a brand new lodge to watch people shred the park and hit the Junkyard, it's just another pull to bring in more riders.

 

[sull1102]

I am quite aware that it would never happen, the prices are fine. It is more a statement against the reduced price of the other groups. I personally would have never paid near 3k for 4 passes ( honestly couldn't afford to) to ski just Mount Snow, or any resort for that matter. We would likely be at Ragged if prices went up much more than they did, as is I didn't buy a pass for my wife this coming season based on the few number of days she skied this season.

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As someone who can only afford to get a pass because of the Drifter option at $399 I say no thanks to this going against the cheaper passes. I love it and am glad the offer such an option because I would never buy a full price adult pass, they're simply insanely priced. And honestly if you want the sport(s) and industry to grow or even maintain the existing base then you need these 20-something passes, without them you would see less improvements, minimal if not negative growth for skier numbers, and eventually less and less skiers as the clientele ages out of the sport.

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[drjeff]

As someone who can only afford to get a pass because of the Drifter option at $399 I say no thanks to this going against the cheaper passes. I love it and am glad the offer such an option because I would never buy a full price adult pass, they're simply insanely priced. And honestly if you want the sport(s) and industry to grow or even maintain the existing base then you need these 20-something passes, without them you would see less improvements, minimal if not negative growth for skier numbers, and eventually less and less skiers as the clientele ages out of the sport.

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The reality is if one looks at the NSAA annual skier visits data, total annual visits for almost 30 years now have been essentially in the mid 50 million visits range, with a couple of years around 60 million and a couple of years around 50 million. Those outlier years are related to either really good snow years across much of the country or really poor years, to at least a decent segment of the country.

Over that time, we've seen the age of passes where they were at times in the $1000 or so range for many areas, on down the the cheaper passes. Regardless of what the pass prices were, the overall skier visits annually have stayed fairly constant.

So while pass prices do have some effect on certain demographics, the long term data shows that it's not a big influence as a whole for the industry.....

http://www.nsaa.org/media/303945/visits.pdf

 

[prsboogie]

So while pass prices do have some effect on certain demographics, the long term data shows that it's not a big influence as a whole for the industry.....

http://www.nsaa.org/media/303945/visits.pdf

Basically comes down to those who are going to ski are going to ski, those who will not won't.

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[cdskier]

The reality is if one looks at the NSAA annual skier visits data, total annual visits for almost 30 years now have been essentially in the mid 50 million visits range, with a couple of years around 60 million and a couple of years around 50 million. Those outlier years are related to either really good snow years across much of the country or really poor years, to at least a decent segment of the country.

Over that time, we've seen the age of passes where they were at times in the $1000 or so range for many areas, on down the the cheaper passes. Regardless of what the pass prices were, the overall skier visits annually have stayed fairly constant.

So while pass prices do have some effect on certain demographics, the long term data shows that it's not a big influence as a whole for the industry.....

http://www.nsaa.org/media/303945/visits.pdf

"Visits" data doesn't tell the whole story. The real story is when resorts look at their individual demographics to see WHO is buying those tickets and passes. If you see less and less 20/30 Y/Os and more and more 40/50/60/70 Y/Os...you have an issue for the future. That's the type of data many of us don't have access to. Perhaps if some of these cheaper passes for people in their 20s were never created, you could potentially see those numbers of visits drop eventually. Just because the data shows they didn't drop yet, doesn't mean they wouldn't have if the resorts didn't take proactive action to increase visits at the lower age range.

Additionally, you have to question the accuracy of visit data a bit. It wasn't until relativiely recently that you could really accurately track "visits" for pass holders. Years ago many resorts would just assume a certain number of visits for each pass they sold. Now you can get exact data with all the electronic tracking options either via barcodes or RFID.

 

[sull1102]

cdskier, I agree completely. That was sort of what I was getting at. Yes those numbers have stayed basically the same, but look around out there on the slopes. The median age is slipping north, the big exception being Carinthia(and other parks) were the median age in the parking lot or on Nitro is probably under 30 80% of the season. These 20-something passes keep those numbers steady, without them you would lose some of those numbers, personally I'd go from a 30+ days on snow season down to 10-15 max. Lose us now and when we have kids we won't come back for those rentals, lessons, and condos. That's where this all leads. If you hook us now, I ski my 20's at a Peaks resort as a Drifter in 15 years when time comes to buy a vacation home I'm going to go look at the Carinthia condos. Get rid of the Drifter and I go to Stratton on a 20-something pass, maybe then in 15 years I'm looking in the village up there because of those memories from "the glory years."

 

[cdskier]

These 20-something passes keep those numbers steady, without them you would lose some of those numbers, personally I'd go from a 30+ days on snow season down to 10-15 max. Lose us now and when we have kids we won't come back for those rentals, lessons, and condos. That's where this all leads. If you hook us now, I ski my 20's at a Peaks resort as a Drifter in 15 years when time comes to buy a vacation home I'm going to go look at the Carinthia condos. Get rid of the Drifter and I go to Stratton on a 20-something pass, maybe then in 15 years I'm looking in the village up there because of those memories from "the glory years."

You pretty much described my situation. If Sugarbush hadn't started offering a "For 20s" pass, I can almost guarantee I wouldn't be a passholder there today. Sure I would still be skiing, but it would be just day trips and a few long weekend trips thrown in. My season day total would probably be half of what it is now. And not only did the "cheap" pass hook me on being a passholder, but it also is what directly led to me buying a condo in VT. I am pretty much literally the poster child for what the people that came up with those passes wanted to see happen...