Mt. Snow cracks down on opposition to employment policy

[drjeff]

Stop the presses, Dr. Jeff reflexively defending Mt Snow. Whoda thunk it?

I'm just putting forth the other side of the story for complete reporting. Frankly myself I feel like the actions of BOTH mountains went too far in this case. And that's not a good thing at all for many fulltime residents of the Deerfield Valley that I am friends with.

Mr. Barnes and The Hermitage Club have had some problems and image issues to deal with in the last few months (likely ACT 250 violations and doing trail work on US Forest Service land without a permit) and he knows that its going to take something extra to get in a set of employees who can not only deliver the product he's advertising, but also believe that they'll have a dependable job for years to come.

Mount Snow/Peak doesn't want too loose some very good employees to another ski area, who they (Mount Snow) have often invested a great deal of time and effort at expanding their skill set over the years. Peak also has seemed to both bring their "best" talent to Mount Snow and also often look first to the staff at Mount Snow when the option to promote within Peak's stable of resorts exists (I know I've heard Mount Snow's GM somewhat jokingly say that she wishes they'd stop promoting so many of her really good managers to other Peak resorts opportunities as it keeps making her job tougher training new, younger talent to live up to her expectations ) and frankly I think that Peak went a step too far.

I hope, for purely selfish listening reasons, that Colby Dix's "suspension" is just for the non snow season and that he'll be back playing his guitar while I'm sitting at my labeled barstool (I can thank Vcunning for that one! ) in the Station Taproom sometime around Thanksgiving when my '13-'14 ski season starts

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[WWF-VT]

#2 - as for your choice not to run a club trip to Mount Snow next year - might you loose some business from club members who not just enjoyed the mountain, but also the uniqueness of the Bluebird Express?

I hope ski club doesn't make a decision on where to go based upon a mountain having a six pack lift.

 

[abc]

So who's saying they don't have the right to fire him? I just say it stinks.

As soon as you post something on the internet, you can't control which way the discussion is going! Or whatever nonsense that would follow:

You'd better not say anything or they may take away your seasons pass .

I agree this is very bad policy and it borders on illegal. Very bad PR. It definately changes my opinion of the company.

Bottom line, spelled out as clear as it can be:

I don't agree with it, but it's certainly not illegal or borderline illegal lol.

 

[ss20]

 

[Rogman]

Mt. Snow is not violating the law. Obviously posting derogatory things on FB isn't going to win you friends, either. however, unless the remarks are particularly egregious, termination is a bit of a nuclear option: at that point you completely lose control of the dialog. There are better ways to handle these issues.

If the mountain is having trouble retaining employees, they clearly have a problem. God forbid they raise their wages or resort to offering competitive salary and benefits. Far better to punish anybody that strays from the company line. I'm sure that most of the people that work at Mt Snow are nice, and get that you have to be fair with your workers. They probably don't agree with the policy, but aren't in a position to say anything. However, customers can and should voice their opinions, and hold companies accountable for their actions.

Gee, DrJeff, I sure hope you aren't "inconvenienced" next fall as you sit on your bar stool and are deprived of Colby's music. Selfish? Yeah, you are. It would be far better if you as pass holder were willing to speak out for those that they are trying to muzzle. Am I deliberately provoking you? Absolutely. Mount Snow wants this issue to go away, and you are not helping them.

 

[ScottySkis]

Mt. Snow is not violating the law. Obviously posting derogatory things on FB isn't going to win you friends, either. however, unless the remarks are particularly egregious, termination is a bit of a nuclear option: at that point you completely lose control of the dialog. There are better ways to handle these issues.

If the mountain is having trouble retaining employees, they clearly have a problem. God forbid they raise their wages or resort to offering competitive salary and benefits. Far better to punish anybody that strays from the company line. I'm sure that most of the people that work at Mt Snow are nice, and get that you have to be fair with your workers. They probably don't agree with the policy, but aren't in a position to say anything. However, customers can and should voice their opinions, and hold companies accountable for their actions.

Gee, DrJeff, I sure hope you aren't "inconvenienced" next fall as you sit on your bar stool and are deprived of Colby's music. Selfish? Yeah, you are. It would be far better if you as pass holder were willing to speak out for those that they are trying to muzzle. Am I deliberately provoking you? Absolutely. Mount Snow wants this issue to go away, and you are not helping them.

I see it like this, if I'm employed and talking about how my boss is the worse boss and telling new people to find new jobs, and he finds out, he probably fire me for that.

 

[Rogman]

I see it like this, if I'm employed and talking about how my boss is the worse boss and telling new people to find new jobs, and he finds out, he probably fire me for that.

I said there are limits, but I'm not sure where they are. Usually you're better off ignoring criticism, especially on something as lame as FB. If one person says something derogatory, who cares? It will quickly be forgotten. If 20 people are saying the same thing, maybe you should start listening. Most importantly, a heavy handed response can easily backfire, as it did in this case. Even deleting posts, simply because you don't like the message, is a bad idea. Mount Snow obviously failed social media 101.

Better to just go all Lumberg on 'em.

 

[chevling]

I said there are limits, but I'm not sure where they are. Usually you're better off ignoring criticism, especially on something as lame as FB. If one person says something derogatory, who cares? It will quickly be forgotten. If 20 people are saying the same thing, maybe you should start listening. Most importantly, a heavy handed response can easily backfire, as it did in this case. Even deleting posts, simply because you don't like the message, is a bad idea. Mount Snow obviously failed social media 101.

Better to just go all Lumberg on 'em.

Just noticed they removed the "posts by others" section of their Facebook page. I haven't looked at it until recently, but I remember it being a storm of complaints when this issue first came up in March.

 

[Edd]

I said there are limits, but I'm not sure where they are. Usually you're better off ignoring criticism, especially on something as lame as FB. If one person says something derogatory, who cares? It will quickly be forgotten. If 20 people are saying the same thing, maybe you should start listening. Most importantly, a heavy handed response can easily backfire, as it did in this case. Even deleting posts, simply because you don't like the message, is a bad idea. Mount Snow obviously failed social media 101.

Better to just go all Lumberg on 'em.
View attachment 8864

While I agree about Facebook being lame, the dude had to be prepared to face the music once he posted his opinions online.

Marketing departments at ski resorts are alerted whenever their business is even mentioned on the Internet. First call they make if an employee or the like is involved will be that person's boss or HR.

 

[ss20]

Was there any negative history between MS and Haystack besides the water disputes?

 

[Rogman]

Colby Dix, a former Dover selectboard member and current board member of Southeastern Vermont Economic Development Strategies (SEVEDS), was among those who were vocal in their opposition to the policy.

Dix voiced his opposition to the resort’s decision in a post written on Facebook. Dix said that the policy removed a viable and consistent wage-paying employer from Mount Snow’s employees’ options, and was a “clear line in the sand.” Dix, who believes the policy was a detriment to ongoing economic development and recovery efforts that he is a part of, felt that the policy was unfair to those who work at both resorts seasonally, and might have trouble making ends meet without the income from a second job.

Read more: Deerfield Valley News - Musician loses work due to Facebook posts
​

Re-read the article (which I've edited to the key points): seems to me Dix was doing his job as a member of the SEVEDS, and Mt Snow decided to make it personal. That sort of political retaliation is unprofessional and inappropriate.

 

[drjeff]

Was there any negative history between MS and Haystack besides the water disputes?

In general, nothing really noteworthy

Haystack/Hermitage is 100% aware that they need a strong, vibrant year round Mount Snow to help attract people to the area. The more people that visit the area, the more potential folks that might want to check out The Hermitage Club (since the pool of potential members they're looking at isn't super large to begin with).

Mount Snow is also aware that while they might loose a few customers, it won't be a large number, and the greater Deerfield Valley Community benefits from having both properties healthy and viable businesses.

The question that remains is that will this ultimately be a symbiotic relationship or an antagonist/protagonist relationship. Right now there's a bunch more year round and seasonal, stable employment opportunities at Mount Snow, and if they get their ACT 250 approval for their master plan, long term base area redevelopment plan, they'll also be more construction work opportunities at Mount Snow than at Haystack.

 

[drjeff]

Re-read the article (which I've edited to the key points): seems to me Dix was doing his job as a member of the SEVEDS, and Mt Snow decided to make it personal. That sort of political retaliation is unprofessional and inappropriate.

If you also read his orginal post, he starts off essentially apologizing for what he's going to say, before even saying it. When you're a known commodity to the vast majority of the community, and especially the vast majority of the higher level management of your major employer as Colby is, then more often than not a face to face discussion about a topic such as this will yield better results.

As much as I am I big Mount Snow cheerleader, there are things that I see them doing that I do take issue with. And frankly its quite easy and professional when you know the administration well to have that conversation with the appropriate person at a one on one level. That's when you tend to find out the whole story, and not just one side of it.

 

[Rogman]

If you also read his orginal post, he starts off essentially apologizing for what he's going to say, before even saying it. When you're a known commodity to the vast majority of the community, and especially the vast majority of the higher level management of your major employer as Colby is, then more often than not a face to face discussion about a topic such as this will yield better results.

As much as I am I big Mount Snow cheerleader, there are things that I see them doing that I do take issue with. And frankly its quite easy and professional when you know the administration well to have that conversation with the appropriate person at a one on one level. That's when you tend to find out the whole story, and not just one side of it.

I have no idea of what he actually posted (and I'll take a wild stab that they deleted it anyway). I really don't have a dog in this fight, other than I hate to see the big guys bully the little guys just because they can. If Mount Snow is implementing policies that hurt workers, but can't take the heat when there's a little push back, then shame on them.

Facebook criticism is pretty benign, it has a shelf life of a few hours. Suggesting some post was a serious blow to Mt Snow prestige and actually harmed them is ludicrous. Yeah, whisper in their ear instead, that'll do the trick. He should not have been terminated. The bone head whose ham handed response turned it into a story, should be.

 

[ScottySkis]

I have no idea of what he actually posted (and I'll take a wild stab that they deleted it anyway). I really don't have a dog in this fight, other than I hate to see the big guys bully the little guys just because they can. If Mount Snow is implementing policies that hurt workers, but can't take the heat when there's a little push back, then shame on them.

Facebook criticism is pretty benign, it has a shelf life of a few hours. Suggesting some post was a serious blow to Mt Snow prestige and actually harmed them is ludicrous. Yeah, whisper in their ear instead, that'll do the trick. He should not have been terminated. The bone head whose ham handed response turned it into a story, should be.

Wow feel sorry for the guy but he decided to make the his opinion public, he had to know this was a possibility.

 

[AdironRider]

Wow feel sorry for the guy but he decided to make the his opinion public, he had to know this was a possibility.

For sure. I always find social media beefs hilarious as people hold the company to unrealistic moral high-ground, but give commenters a free pass where anything goes. Whats the term.....don't bite the hand that feeds you.

 

[drjeff]

I have no idea of what he actually posted (and I'll take a wild stab that they deleted it anyway). I really don't have a dog in this fight, other than I hate to see the big guys bully the little guys just because they can. If Mount Snow is implementing policies that hurt workers, but can't take the heat when there's a little push back, then shame on them.

Facebook criticism is pretty benign, it has a shelf life of a few hours. Suggesting some post was a serious blow to Mt Snow prestige and actually harmed them is ludicrous. Yeah, whisper in their ear instead, that'll do the trick. He should not have been terminated. The bone head whose ham handed response turned it into a story, should be.

Point of Reference here. Colby Dix WASN'T a Mount Snow employee. He was (and still is) an independent contractor hired on a per diem basis for a specific job and fee. He wasn't fired. Mount Snow chose not to hire him on a per diem basis for any future work. There is a distinct difference.

In essence its not that much of a different scenario if they chose not to continuing buying from a specific food vendor because they didn't like something about that vendor.

As for the "whisper in the ear" thing not working. Speaking from personal experience relating to Mount Snow, I strongly beg to differ. Having a rational, professional conversation, where the outcome may very well be that both parties agree to disagree, and that's fine, often has more effect (even if the general public isn't aware of it) than trying to play it out in the public and acting like the proverbial squeaky wheel. With absolutely no disrespect meant to Scotty, even he fully gets this concept based on a recent post of his

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[ScottySkis]

Point of Reference here. Colby Dix WASN'T a Mount Snow employee. He was (and still is) an independent contractor hired on a per diem basis for a specific job and fee. He wasn't fired. Mount Snow chose not to hire him on a per diem basis for any future work. There is a distinct difference.

In essence its not that much of a different scenario if they chose not to continuing buying from a specific food vendor because they didn't like something about that vendor.

As for the "whisper in the ear" thing not working. Speaking from personal experience relating to Mount Snow, I strongly beg to differ. Having a rational, professional conversation, where the outcome may very well be that both parties agree to disagree, and that's fine, often has more effect (even if the general public isn't aware of it) than trying to play it out in the public and acting like the proverbial squeaky wheel. With absolutely no disrespect meant to Scotty, even he fully gets this concept based on a recent post of his

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No disrespect I totally get it and thanks, I agree. He should understand and their always 3 parts to a story, 1 from one side, 1 from the other side and the truth.

 

[abc]

Point of Reference here. Colby Dix WASN'T a Mount Snow employee. He was (and still is) an independent contractor hired on a per diem basis for a specific job and fee. He wasn't fired. Mount Snow chose not to hire him on a per diem basis for any future work. There is a distinct difference.

I wonder how many more times you have to remind people that Mr. Dox is NOT an employee of Mt. Snow?

People are so quick to shoot from their hip...

 

[vcunning]

This did turn into an article in the Deerfield Valley News. Colby posted on FB that it was ironic how the layout of the page was done.

I hope, for purely selfish listening reasons, that Colby Dix's "suspension" is just for the non snow season and that he'll be back playing his guitar while I'm sitting at my labeled barstool (I can thank Vcunning for that one! ) in the Station Taproom sometime around Thanksgiving when my '13-'14 ski season starts

Apologies for now going slightly off topic. Rumor has it that DrJeff's chair might be upgraded next season.