MTB - Tire & Slippage Question.. s...

[Trev]

Well,

I picked up a Kenda Nevegal 2.35.. give her a test out later this week.

PSI @ 40 and the new tire.. seemed to be a really good combo.. keep in mind my PSI was @ 55 prior.. I could probably lower it more... but 40 seemed to work well yesterday...

good stuff so far.. the couple of slips I did have, where short and quickly recovered as compared to before when I would slip down a root until I hit something... like.. my ass on the ground.. lol.

 

[tjf67]

PSI @ 40 and the new tire.. seemed to be a really good combo.. keep in mind my PSI was @ 55 prior.. I could probably lower it more... but 40 seemed to work well yesterday...

good stuff so far.. the couple of slips I did have, where short and quickly recovered as compared to before when I would slip down a root until I hit something... like.. my ass on the ground.. lol.

If it slips bring it down to 35 PSI. I was keeping my pressure at 40. Then after a couple of ridew where I did not put air in the tire I noticed I was getting great traction. I did not realy think about it until I put them back up to 40. Let air out on the trail cause I was slipping all over the place.

 

[sLoPeS]

PSI @ 40 and the new tire.. seemed to be a really good combo.. keep in mind my PSI was @ 55 prior.. I could probably lower it more... but 40 seemed to work well yesterday...

good stuff so far.. the couple of slips I did have, where short and quickly recovered as compared to before when I would slip down a root until I hit something... like.. my ass on the ground.. lol.

gotta love new tires. world of difference from stock/crappy/bald ones. try different pressures and see what u like the best. biggest issues is that happy medium b/t roll and grip. somethings always gotta give...

fwiw.....i run panaracer fire pro xc kevlar beaded at 35-40 and really like them. will upgrade to a larger tire (first front then rear) on the next go around. i did lose a knob a week ago, but these things get beat up pretty good so i cant say its the tires fault.

 

[Trev]

Ya, I have to upgrade the front tire now from the stock one I got with the bike.

I had never really 'noticed' how often it slipped, but yesterday I did. Probably because I had to really compensate for my skill/psi/slick tire in the past. Perhaps overcompensating. I mean, that is where my focus was/is still.

Either way it isn't a huge deal, I mean, wow what a difference that tire and psi adjustment made. I can totally cope with the front tire as is for a bit if I have to.. I may order online and save myself $20+ on the tire.. my god they got me for $60 for a $35 tire :blink:

Anyhow... moving on here.. lol

 

[Greg]

Either way it isn't a huge deal, I mean, wow what a difference that tire and psi adjustment made. I can totally cope with the front tire as is for a bit if I have to.. I may order online and save myself $20+ on the tire.. my god they got me for $60 for a $35 tire :blink:

A good front makes as much a difference as the rear. I rarely oversteer and wash out anymore, allowing me to push the speed in the corners a little bit. You paid $60 for a Neve? You got raped, son.

 

[MR. evil]

A good front makes as much a difference as the rear. I rarely oversteer and wash out anymore, allowing me to push the speed in the corners a little bit. .

I tried out a new front tire tonight, a really aggresive DH tire.. The tire made a huge impact on cornering! I was carring much more speed in and out of some pretty sharp corners going down and never felt the font lose traction. I had so much confidence in the front tire holding its line that I was letting the rear break loose a little and drifting some corners.

 

[MR. evil]

Ya, I have to upgrade the front tire now from the stock one I got with the bike.

I had never really 'noticed' how often it slipped, but yesterday I did. Probably because I had to really compensate for my skill/psi/slick tire in the past. Perhaps overcompensating. I mean, that is where my focus was/is still.

Either way it isn't a huge deal, I mean, wow what a difference that tire and psi adjustment made. I can totally cope with the front tire as is for a bit if I have to.. I may order online and save myself $20+ on the tire.. my god they got me for $60 for a $35 tire :blink:

Anyhow... moving on here.. lol

I pretty much only buy tires online. I only get them from the bike shop when I can't wait or find a great deal. I did get my new front tire for $15 from my shop :beer:. A Continental rep from Germany visited the shop a couple of weeks ago and gave them a couple of these monstrer DH tires as samples. From what I have read they are not even for sale in the states yet, and go for about $60 to $70 online in Europe. This tire was sitting on the shelf with no price or packing. It was a sample wrapped in a couple of rubber bands. It looked like it would be a nice aggresive front tire so I asked the shop owner how much he wanted for it. I then heard some of the nicest words you can ever hear in a bike shop "how much to you want to pay for it?". I asked how much his mark up on bike tires was, he said $10 to $15 bucks, so I gave him $15 for it.

 

[big oz]

I really don't care where people buy their tires, but don't claim that a shop raped you for $60 on a Nevegal. Please do some homework before pointing fingers. A shop that purchases that tire from a distributor like QBP is paying roughly $38 bucks for that tire without shipping....add in a couple bucks for shipping and their "to door" cost is close to $40. If they buy 5 or more of that same tire they may get a discount of $2 per unit. If they were to keystone that same tire they would be closer to the $80 mark. Now if you are a good customer, and they give you a 10% discount, they are making shit on that tire. Unfortunately for us, we don't have the ability, nor the resources to buy OEM surplus from manufacturers that need to dump product, nor do we have the desire to buy the sometimes inferior product that companies flood mail order chains with (ever wonder where those batches of out of spec and bad compound rubber go to....hint, it's not a landfill). Again, if you don't like a shops price, buy it somewhere else. You have a choice and the last time I checked rape is an act committed to someone against their will. So unless the shop had a 9mm pistol pointed at your headforcing you to buy that tire, i would refrain from using a strong word like that in reference to someone trying to keep the doors open and offer you the convenience of being able to buy a product right then and there.

 

[MR. evil]

what do you mean by 'Keystone'?

 

[Greg]

I really don't care where people buy their tires, but don't claim that a shop raped you for $60 on a Nevegal. Please do some homework before pointing fingers. A shop that purchases that tire from a distributor like QBP is paying roughly $38 bucks for that tire without shipping....add in a couple bucks for shipping and their "to door" cost is close to $40. If they buy 5 or more of that same tire they may get a discount of $2 per unit. If they were to keystone that same tire they would be closer to the $80 mark. Now if you are a good customer, and they give you a 10% discount, they are making shit on that tire. Unfortunately for us, we don't have the ability, nor the resources to buy OEM surplus from manufacturers that need to dump product, nor do we have the desire to buy the sometimes inferior product that companies flood mail order chains with (ever wonder where those batches of out of spec and bad compound rubber go to....hint, it's not a landfill). Again, if you don't like a shops price, buy it somewhere else. You have a choice and the last time I checked rape is an act committed to someone against their will. So unless the shop had a 9mm pistol pointed at your headforcing you to buy that tire, i would refrain from using a strong word like that in reference to someone trying to keep the doors open and offer you the convenience of being able to buy a product right then and there.

Easy killer. You are right, perhaps "rape" wasn't the best word. And I agree there is a premium involved with instant gratification, no doubt, but $63+ (with sales tax) for a Neve is steep, bottom line. How can the online places sell it for $35 if it costs $38 from the distributor? Bulk deal or something?

 

[bvibert]

How can the online places sell it for $35 if it costs $38 from the distributor? Bulk deal or something?

I think he covered two possible sources here:

Unfortunately for us, we don't have the ability, nor the resources to buy OEM surplus from manufacturers that need to dump product, nor do we have the desire to buy the sometimes inferior product that companies flood mail order chains with (ever wonder where those batches of out of spec and bad compound rubber go to....hint, it's not a landfill).

 

[big oz]

Reason 1 - You buy 20k tires, you obviously get a huge discount....especially if a company makes a production over run or a tire with a cosmetic blem or slight defect in the formula.....

Reason 2 - Most online parts places are nothing more than a steel building with a bunch of computers and people who make 8 bucks an hour picking product. If they get a tire for $30 and sell it for $35 and do that same thing 1000 times a day you are in good shape. Now multiply that number times how many other products they sell. Especially if you get someone to buy some other high mark up like Sette bars or 4 year old WTB saddles. Ever wonder why they never have a full run of sizes or models in forks, etc. They get what they can and off it ASAP. This is how Home Depot and Walmart work....minimal mark-up @ huge volumes.

Reason 3 - You own a company like Jamis and you decide to spec your bike with a specific part.....an XT rear derailluer perhaps. You are planning on building 9000 units of a specific bike. Shimano gives you a crazy price break if you buy a 10k count pallet of bagged derailluers. You spec your bikes and have 1k derailluers left what are you gonna do? You call up one of these mail order places and sell the remainder to them at a minimal mark-up. This is one of the reasons a lot of parts that come from on-line retailers come in bulk packaging....they are overstocks from manufacturers.

Again, one has a choice where to buy.....but what do you expect a shop to sell a tire for when they pay $38 for it?.....If I sold those tires for $50 people would still bitch and we would be out of business in a week. I bet every shop in CT combined doesn't sell 1000 tires a week, let alone a day.

 

[Trekchick]

This thread has been a great read with some great information!

The stock Bontys on my Trek were horrible. I replaced with Moto Raptors and have since replaced those with the Nevegals. I don't think the Neves give me any better traction, but they shed mud way better than the Moto Raptors and have way better edge grip while cornering. At around $35 each, not a cheap tire, but I would recommend them. I haven't noticed any appreciable wear (I run full Stick-E compound) after 120+ miles, so unless you're riding over a thousand miles a season, I think you can get away with one set per season.

Greg nailed it!

When I bought my first HT bike,(Trek) it had Bontragers that were marginal at best, but I had no idea that it was the tires and not my lack of skillz, until a friend that was on a new Giant with much more aggressive tires smoked me on some climbs that I should have done more easily than she did. We switched bikes for part of the ride and I knew it was the tires immediately.

Pretty much every bike shop I have been to carries Kenda Nevegals. But a bike shop may not have the size you want in stock. An LBS will also be more expensive than online, but weight in shipping and it might be close.

The times I've looked at on line purchases and LBS, the difference in service and shipping, not to mention the wait time for your order, usually buying at the LBS wins out with me.

Ya, I have to upgrade the front tire now from the stock one I got with the bike.

I had never really 'noticed' how often it slipped, but yesterday I did. Probably because I had to really compensate for my skill/psi/slick tire in the past. Perhaps overcompensating. I mean, that is where my focus was/is still.



Anyhow... moving on here.. lol

Trev, its great to see your enthusiasm.

The more you ride the better your balance will be, which will help a lot.
I may be off base here and I certainly don't know your riding style, but...
Try standing when you corner and bring your butt back over the saddle. You may find the balance and agility you're looking for.
:beer:

 

[Trev]

The more you ride the better your balance will be, which will help a lot.
I may be off base here and I certainly don't know your riding style, but...
Try standing when you corner and bring your butt back over the saddle. You may find the balance and agility you're looking for.
:beer:

Yea, I'm working on it.. thx