New lift, trail work proposed for Whiteface Mountain

[machski]

this. avalanche danger in the slides is real.

Yup, they are aptly named. And Whiteface does not do avy control, it's maybe the one place in the East that could at times.

 

[x10003q]

Don't beginners have their own little section? Bunny hutch lift area? Maybe the next level is a little lacking. even intermediates can ski all of the lower lift which is pretty flat. and the Wilmington trail is a nice long cruiser. that gets you to lookout (although not back to it). Even at the top skiers right has a lot of blues (victoria is a little steep for a blue)

There is 1 green trail off the Face HSQ and zero green trails off the Gondola. There is only 1 blue trail off the Gondola - Excelsior - and it can be pretty hairball if it is icy. It leads into a bunch of high speed trails that drain the expert trails off Little WF. The Wilmington trail is only a blue trail under perfect conditions, something that rarely exists at Whiteface. There are some real shaky sections on Wilmington. My wife, a strong blue skier, did it once under normal WF conditions and said never again.

We owned a place at Gore for 25 years. I love skiing WF, but the blue skiers in my extended family were happy going there once to say they skied it, but never wanted to go back. Gore is the greatest place for blue skiers and decent for green skiers. The contrast with WF is striking.

 

[x10003q]

Lookout Mountain already has 100% snowmaking. The Ski Bowl at Gore has (near) 100% snowmaking. It is a question of priorities for both mountains. If they are so lo down the list (or not at all on the list like 46er and Hudson at Gore) then their pumping capacity all around is inadequate despite saying otherwise.

It is the pumping capacity and budget.
Most years, Burnt Ridge opens mid Jan (unless there has been lots of natural snow). The HSQ on Burnt Ridge (6100ft long/1437 vertical ft, installed in 2008) is one of the most underutilized high speed lifts in the East. It serves only 2 cut trails and some of the longest glades in the East (no snow, no glades). It can also be closed mid-week. Ski Bowl/Little Gore is also low on the Gore open list. The Ski Bowl cannot connect to the main base of Gore without Burnt Ridge being open. It all fits in with ORDA's priorities.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Don't beginners have their own little section? Bunny hutch lift area? Maybe the next level is a little lacking. even intermediates can ski all of the lower lift which is pretty flat. and the Wilmington trail is a nice long cruiser. that gets you to lookout (although not back to it). Even at the top skiers right has a lot of blues (victoria is a little steep for a blue)

It's uninspiring and boring. Whiteface is literally the worst big mountain I can think of for beginners, and I cant imagine anyone else being worse. Frankly, Whiteface isnt the best for intermediates either given Lookout Mountain is so rarely open, and Excelsior is my submission for "Most Dangerous Ski Trail" in the east. If the snow is nice, however, Whiteface is awesome for advanced & expert skiers.

 

[BenedictGomez]

The Wilmington trail is only a blue trail under perfect conditions, something that rarely exists at Whiteface. There are some real shaky sections on Wilmington. My wife, a strong blue skier, did it once under normal WF conditions and said never again.

Towards the bottom, the hard left turn into a hairpin hard right turn with some serious pitch! It's awesome. For the life of me how that's "intermediate", however, is beyond me. LOL

That said, in general, Whiteface trail ratings are much harder than anywhere else I can think of in the east. They allow big moguls to sometimes form on Victoria which would make it a legit Double Diamond anywhere else, but at Whiteface that's blue.

 

[Kingslug20]

I tried teaching a friend of mine who lived up there how to ski...and it was pretty damn hard as most trails were not good for beginners..he survived..but never took to it.
That being said..I've had good and bad times there..it can be pretty hairy. But..some of the best skiers I ever met where from there..

 

[Keelhauled]

It is the pumping capacity and budget.
Most years, Burnt Ridge opens mid Jan (unless there has been lots of natural snow). The HSQ on Burnt Ridge (6100ft long/1437 vertical ft, installed in 2008) is one of the most underutilized high speed lifts in the East. It serves only 2 cut trails and some of the longest glades in the East (no snow, no glades). It can also be closed mid-week. Ski Bowl/Little Gore is also low on the Gore open list. The Ski Bowl cannot connect to the main base of Gore without Burnt Ridge being open. It all fits in with ORDA's priorities.

At one point in the recent past, Gore's long term planning called for cutting more trails, I think at least in part by clearing out some of the glades.

 

[urungus]

Today at Whiteface

Whiteface on Instagram: "First dump❄ #WhitefaceMountain #Lakeplacid #snow #snowing #NYLoveWinter #ISpyNY #SkiTheFACE #SkiTheEast #SkiADK #ISkiNY"

5,963 likes, 134 comments - whiteface_mt on October 25, 2021: "First dump❄ #WhitefaceMountain #Lakeplacid #snow #snowing #NYLoveWinter #ISpyNY #SkiTheFACE #SkiTheEast #SkiADK #ISkiNY"

www.instagram.com

 

[x10003q]

At one point in the recent past, Gore's long term planning called for cutting more trails, I think at least in part by clearing out some of the glades.

Yes, the 3-5 trails have been on the UMP since before they installed the Burnt Ridge HSQ in 2008. The trails would need snow making.

 

[Newpylong]

I noticed they finally made snow on 46er for the first time last year, that's a start!

 

[raisingarizona]

Yup, they are aptly named. And Whiteface does not do avy control, it's maybe the one place in the East that could at times.

Snow safety programs are problematic for a place that rarely uses the techniques and bombing. Gov regulations would be difficult for a place like whiteface and it’s expensive. Even more so when you only throw bombs once every few years.

It’s required to go through an x amount of your cache every year to keep the program up to spec and having staff trained to do the work would be challenging and again, expensive. After 9/11 the gov regs became very strict.

I imagine this is why they like to let things sit for 24-48 hours and air on the side of caution. From a management perspective I doubt it makes sense to take those risks for the actual value of that terrain for them in the big picture, business sense.

 

[machski]

Snow safety programs are problematic for a place that rarely uses the techniques and bombing. Gov regulations would be difficult for a place like whiteface and it’s expensive. Even more so when you only throw bombs once every few years.

It’s required to go through an x amount of your cache every year to keep the program up to spec and having staff trained to do the work would be challenging and again, expensive. After 9/11 the gov regs became very strict.

I imagine this is why they like to let things sit for 24-48 hours and air on the side of caution. From a management perspective I doubt it makes sense to take those risks for the actual value of that terrain for them in the big picture, business sense.

Good points and yeah, up in the Adirondacks, none of that would be easy. Thus why they rarely open. Even when they get the snow, they have to let the snowpack stabilize naturally.

 

[Harvey]

The Slides certainly have the potential to avy, but they were actually created by mud slides.

One thing you have to know about the NY state mountains... it's politicians who decide on improvements. Money comes for lifts and terrain in big piles and the snowmaking follows very slowly. Which is why Burnt Ridge and the Ski Bowl take forever to open.

If someone came to a state owned mountain in NH and said here's a new Leitner Poma HSQ on the next ridge over, but no money for snowmaking, would they take it?

It opens Gore up to a ton of criticism, but it is not always the fault of ops. It's skiing decisions being made for non-skiing (political) reasons.

 

[Newpylong]

While we're on the Gore subject have they ever made snow on Powder Pass to Northstar? The few times I've been there it's not covered but seems to have or had snowmaking at one time. The pipes are in place anyway. Never good optics to have a bare terrain under the lift IMHO.

 

[Bosco DaSkia]

The pipe on the trail was all old reused pipe from whiteface with vitriolic fittings. Fucking thing leaked like a sieve at all times. Almost impossible to keep charged. We were constantly having big blow outs and then having the line freeze before we could fix it or drain it. which is why whiteface dumped that shit off on to us in the first place.

that was back in 97/98…. I don’t think it’s been run much since then.

 

[Newpylong]

The pipe on the trail was all old reused pipe from whiteface with vitriolic fittings. Fucking thing leaked like a sieve at all times. Almost impossible to keep charged. We were constantly having big blow outs and then having the line freeze before we could fix it or drain it. which is why whiteface dumped that shit off on to us in the first place.

that was back in 97/98…. I don’t think it’s been run much since then.

Guess I indirectly stayed on topic w/Whiteface lol. It's amazing so many ski areas used Victaulic pipe. Stuff is awful for snowmaking... thanks for the info.

 

[urungus]

Saw this on r/icecoast

 

[Newpylong]

Mid-station... should be a maintenance friendly lift lol.

 

[machski]

Mid-station... should be a maintenance friendly lift lol.

Taxpayers have deep pockets

 

[Newpylong]

Unreal.